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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by T $$$ View Post
    You cannot even figure out where YOU stand on your own argument...one minute Cabrera is the worst and Fielder is okay, then the next minute Cabrera is okay and Fielder should DH. Make up your damn mind.

    Furthermore, anyone who says that Cabrera is a worse defender than Fielder is a complete fool. I don't think Cabrera would ever win a gold glove at 1B but he surely would get much closer than Fielder ever will.
    Not sure whether Fielder is a worse 1B than Miggy is a 3B (it's close), but Miggy is a better 1B than Fielder is (which is why his value is higher there), I have not been inconsistent on this. I understand that this lineup is what has to be done unless Prince is dealt which I don't expect. But let's be honest about Miggy's poor defense at 3B.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by T $$$ View Post
    You cannot even figure out where YOU stand on your own argument...one minute Cabrera is the worst and Fielder is okay, then the next minute Cabrera is okay and Fielder should DH. Make up your damn mind.

    Furthermore, anyone who says that Cabrera is a worse defender than Fielder is a complete fool. I don't think Cabrera would ever win a gold glove at 1B but he surely would get much closer than Fielder ever will.
    There's better ways to state your argument without calling GasMan a fool.
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    Not sure whether Fielder is a worse 1B than Miggy is a 3B (it's close), but Miggy is a better 1B than Fielder is (which is why his value is higher there), I have not been inconsistent on this. I understand that this lineup is what has to be done unless Prince is dealt which I don't expect. But let's be honest about Miggy's poor defense at 3B.
    Aren't the advanced defensive metrics for Miggy almost exactly the same at 3B as they were with 1B?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voodoo111 View Post
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by T $$$ View Post
    You cannot even figure out where YOU stand on your own argument...one minute Cabrera is the worst and Fielder is okay, then the next minute Cabrera is okay and Fielder should DH. Make up your damn mind.

    Furthermore, anyone who says that Cabrera is a worse defender than Fielder is a complete fool. I don't think Cabrera would ever win a gold glove at 1B but he surely would get much closer than Fielder ever will.
    Quote Originally Posted by ahoda View Post
    There's better ways to state your argument without calling GasMan a fool.
    You are correct, and I said I was not going to get into it again with GasMan...I could not hold my tongue. I let my emotions get the better of me, I owe you all an apology. I am sorry.

    No matter how long GasMan and I "discuss" things, neither of us is changing our minds. He was prodding me for a couple of days with the "just stating the obvious", and "Cabrera is the worst, blah, blah, blah"...I just blew up. Again, I apologize ahoda, to you too GasMan, and everyone else.
    Last edited by T $$$; 12-20-2012 at 11:14 AM.

  5. #50
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    You don't need to apologize to me or anyone else, just try to state argument without turning this little piece of heaven into the mlb main forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voodoo111 View Post
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahoda View Post
    You don't need to apologize to me or anyone else, just try to state argument without turning this little piece of heaven into the mlb main forum.

    I have a sister-in-law that conversations with her remind me of conversations with GasMan...I have come to realize that the holidays are easier if I just stay on the other side of the room and focus on my wife, my kids, and the rest of the family instead of converse with her. You follow?

    That is why I apologized. I went back on my stance of not getting into it again...and I knew better. Even as I was typing my comment, I knew I should not have posted a reply.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by sc8581 View Post
    It makes more sense to have VMart play 1B since he's a better defender and Fielder DH, but obviously in NL parks Fielder will be getting the nod over him. Food for thought.
    2 thoughts behind this.

    1. Can V-Mart move without using a walker?

    2. Will Prince be willing the give up fielding? Because we all knew where he stood on that this time last year

  8. #53
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    If I recall, during Prince's introduction conference he said he is going to play 1B for now but in a couple years if he needs to move to DH he would be willing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dekker View Post
    2 thoughts behind this.

    1. Can V-Mart move without using a walker?

    2. Will Prince be willing the give up fielding? Because we all knew where he stood on that this time last year
    I'm assuming VMart is back where he was before the injury, from what I recall he was pretty good at 1B though.

  10. #55
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    I guess we won't know until spring training. I would support this if Prince was willing to forfeit playing the field

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahoda View Post
    Aren't the advanced defensive metrics for Miggy almost exactly the same at 3B as they were with 1B?
    Using Fangraphs (UZR/150, RZR) Cabrera at 1B is middle of the pack where Cabrera at 3B is at or near the bottom. I'm not really sure these are as good at describing 1B defense because they are better at quantifying making a play on a batted ball where obviously the job of the 1B is also reliant on making put outs.
    Last edited by GasMan; 12-20-2012 at 10:42 PM.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by T $$$ View Post
    You are correct, and I said I was not going to get into it again with GasMan...I could not hold my tongue. I let my emotions get the better of me, I owe you all an apology. I am sorry.

    No matter how long GasMan and I "discuss" things, neither of us is changing our minds. He was prodding me for a couple of days with the "just stating the obvious", and "Cabrera is the worst, blah, blah, blah"...I just blew up. Again, I apologize ahoda, to you too GasMan, and everyone else.
    No need for apologies. I really was not trying to prod you with that comment, but it was probably a bad way to respond. I'm sorry I posted that.

    I do disagree with your view of the infield defense but don't understand why you wouldn't want to continue to discuss the topic just because we don't share the same opinion. I really am open to changing my mind, I just don't understand the rationale for your view yet. This is a Tiger discussion forum, I'm just trying to discuss the Tigers. I certainly don't want to be the bad in-law of the forum, but I have a point of view and have the right to express it here. If all you take out of my posts is that I'm talking bad about Miggy then I don't really think you're reading them.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    No need for apologies. I really was not trying to prod you with that comment, but it was probably a bad way to respond. I'm sorry I posted that.

    I do disagree with your view of the infield defense but don't understand why you wouldn't want to continue to discuss the topic just because we don't share the same opinion. I really am open to changing my mind, I just don't understand the rationale for your view yet. This is a Tiger discussion forum, I'm just trying to discuss the Tigers. I certainly don't want to be the bad in-law of the forum, but I have a point of view and have the right to express it here. If all you take out of my posts is that I'm talking bad about Miggy then I don't really think you're reading them.
    Well...Dekker is going to make fun of us and say that our last few posts are technology's version of kissing and making up (just wanted to get out in front of Dekker)...lets move on GasMan.

    My theory of a properly constructed baseball team is quite traditional, I must admit. Defensively, I have always started with the Catcher position; the catcher is in on every pitch and therefore the most important defensive position on the diamond. I then look to SS, then CF, then back to 2B. Those four positions, in my opinion must have three superior defenders preferably four. I then look to LF, then RF (I am more concerned with arm strength here than glove). Then 3B, then 1B (I really am not as concerned at 1B with good defense in the field as much as I am at the base being able to be scoop and dig throws).

    I don't buy into the current offensive game or what I like to call Yankee-ball...power bats at every position, the offense dependent upon the long ball to win. I suppose that if the Tigers played at Yankee Stadium for all of their home games I would subscribe to that way of thinking. Don't get me wrong, I love home runs and those that can hit them...but I get just as excited for the two out single to the gap that scores two runs...I love it when guys make the pitchers work. I appreciate a timely bunt.

    My feeling is that Comerica Park is a PITCHERS park and we should field a team accordingly.

    Great pitching (at least starting pitching anyways), defensively strong up the middle, and power from the corners is how I look to build a baseball team.

    What are your thoughts in regards to the above?

  14. #59
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    I think all of use are sick of DD building a team that isn't suited for our ball park. The Angels and Twins kill us in Comerica because they are just built for the speed and gap hitting that we can't do. But in some instances the league isn't strong in certain positions and right now its at MIF. So Peratla and Infante may suck, they are still top 10 at their respective positions and upgrading them isn't worth the cost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahoda View Post
    I think all of use are sick of DD building a team that isn't suited for our ball park. The Angels and Twins kill us in Comerica because they are just built for the speed and gap hitting that we can't do. But in some instances the league isn't strong in certain positions and right now its at MIF. So Peratla and Infante may suck, they are still top 10 at their respective positions and upgrading them isn't worth the cost.
    The Tigers are great at drafting pitching, outfielders, and have done fairly well with drafting catchers too. Correct? I understand that MIF market is thin. I get it. Ultimately, I don't feel that you need a proven guy at every position. Based on my earlier post, Avila and Jackson are great defensively...I am okay with Infante at 2B...Peralta while servicable needs to be better at SS defensively IMO. If I were DD, I would be willing to try an unproven guy at SS. I think he would be willing to do it IF he wasn't already trying Dirks as a full-time guy in LF. This is not as big of a concern for me as I suspect Garcia to be the starting RF for the Tigers as of August 1st 2013, moving Hunter to LF.

    I understand your highlighted comment, I do. But Peralta is a FA after 2013 as is Infante (so is Santiago). So our MIF is good for 2013 but after, who is there, Worth? The currently constructed Tigers team is built for the next 2 seasons...after that who knows. IF we are trading Porcello/Smyly, Boesch, Peralta, and possibly Garcia/Castellanos and maybe Crosby, why not assess the top twenty SS prospects and current players and find a match? You may have to take a flyer on a prospect but do the homework and get a Hoover.

    For example, Nick Franklin at Seattle...send Porcello, Castellanos, Peralta and Boesch for Franklin...or keep Peralta for the start of the season and bring up Franklin at mid season while trading Peralta for RP help if the trade does not require Peralta.

    Same package to the Pirates for Hanson...or Correa from the Astros (as they also have Villar), or Iglesias from Boston as they have Xander Bogaerts knocking on the door in 2014 (and Drew signed to a one year deal).

    The thing that all of these teams have in common is a need for offense as well as pitching. I cannot imagine that that package couldn't pry at least one of those deals.
    Last edited by T $$$; 12-21-2012 at 10:28 AM.

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