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  1. #46
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    no to ellis. he isn't worth it. al jefferson is worth way more then monta ellis. one guy to keep a check of is rudy gay. If the grizzlies start to struggle then they might not want to pay the tax and we might be able to pry him away

  2. #47
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    Getting a scoring wing is a need, but more so than getting a young future point guard? No. We cant dismantle this team to make room for potential. we need proven. And honestly, I think completely differently, I think Utah should embrace defense. We have a defensive anchor in Favors, solid wing defenders, we just need one more elite wing defender, and a defensive guard and we're right on our way.
    FWITHMEYOUKNOWIGOTIT

  3. #48
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    What does everyone feel about Brandon Jennings from the Bucks? I seem to remember a trade rumor that he was on the trading block. I haven't seen to much of him but he's speedy and can get into the lane and score. We could move Mo over to the SG spot as well. I'm not sure if Jennings is "elite" status but he is good. His contract is also expiring. I haven't played with the trade machine on him yet, what is everyone's thoughts?
    Last edited by Ironman5219; 12-22-2012 at 04:01 PM.

    2011 Denver Bronco PSD Forum Fantasy Football Champion!
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  4. #49
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    He can kinda be a chucker, but he's experienced with his Europe time, I'm sure with a strong voice from Corbin, we can teach him to pass. But who would we give up for him? It's not like he's making 15 mil or 8 mil...
    FWITHMEYOUKNOWIGOTIT

  5. #50
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    if we really want jennings I bet the best time to get him is in a sign and trade next offseason when he will be a rfa

  6. #51
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    Wow I've been away for a few weeks and come back to find some of the worst trade ideas I have ever seen. We are not trading Favors period. We are not going to get Kevin Love. Iggy and Faried would be nice, but not for Hayward, Milly, and Favors. Marvin isn't as bad as you guys are saying he is, and neither is Mo. Mo > Jennings and Bledsoe. And Kanter is not ready to be an every day starter. I know Granger had an off year last season and has been hurt this season, but I wouldn't mind making a run at him. Gay would be better, but our chances at getting him are slim to none. Granger/Iggy/Gay are my first choices, here's a few ideas on how to get em:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ba67u6n

    Utah gets: Iggy
    Denver gets: Milly and Bell

    Iggy isn't working out in Denver, they shed 3mil from this trade, and they have a good chance of retaining Milly past this season. I would hate to see Millsap in a Nuggets uniform, but it makes sense for both teams.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d72cxr6

    Utah gets: Granger and Augustin
    Indiana gets: Millsap, Bell, and Watson

    We get an upgrade at backup PG, get Granger for next season at least (should be healthy), and get rid of Bell and Watson. Pacers save money (still would have to get their PG situation sorted out though).

    And as much as I want Gay, I don't see any way we get him unless they end up trading Z-Bo or Gasol for backcourt help prior to us trading with them. 3-way trade could work. I'll figure something else out later.

    "I know one thing for sure; you won't be able to say that Braves fans don't care" Chipper Jones

  7. #52
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    I think Al is good enough to be our big body in the middle. It just leaves Millsap that odd man out, same with Marvin. I think we got enough great big guys between Al, Favors and Hayward(then Kanter).

    With Al and Favors as C and PF, that leaves the shooting forward position for Hayward, and shooting guard for Foye. The only one I would change in this line up is the shooting guard and/or point guard.

    I think we should trade out Milsap for a slicker shooting guard than Foye or for a passing point guard(one who will pass first, shoot second)(like Tinsley) which is what we need because its what got "jazz basketball" to the Championships twice! I think Mo is better at Shooting than passing. I think we should put Tinsley at starter PG, with Mo/Foye cycling at the SG.

    We got 3 big players who can dominate the paint if we can get someone to work the lane to open up spots like Stockton did. I thought Mo might be this guy, but he doesn't seem to be doing as good as Tinsley, in terms of opening up shots for our high point shooters.

    Could you imagine having a Stockton and Malone, but with Jefferson as Center(Ostertag), Foye/Mo shooting the 3's(hornacek), and Hayward playing the SF(like Russel).
    I mean look what boozer and deron were able to do, playing jazz ball. Our system doesn't work without a good passing PG. Which is why I think our bench is what wins games for us.(cause tinsley has been the bench).

    This is what we need if we are to keep playing Jazz basketball. I think Favors, Al, and Hayward would score hella if they had a guy like Chris Paul, Steve Nash or Deron Williams feeding assits, with Foye giving us that 3pt.

    If we don't go back to this...then fire Corbin and bring in a different coach, so we can play their ball. I sure wish Sloan would "un-retire" and come back!
    Last edited by RyanStorm; 12-23-2012 at 11:30 PM.

  8. #53
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    We have a lot of guys on 1 year contracts and our Bench is our future. So trading favors, hayward, kanter or burks is out of question for the jazz. Evans and Murphy we have been building up, just like we did with all our other draft picks.
    Marvin has another year, and I think he was part of the Jazz's next year plans.

    Were pretty much talking about trading: Millsap(who denied a contract), Jefferson, Mo Williams, Watson, Randy Foye, Tinsley and Carroll(oh and Raja Bell). Were not going to see all of them return. Millsap is not going to be playing next year, and will probably be gone by all star weekend. Unless he accepts to stay on FA.

    Personally I would give Foye and Carroll extensions for sure. I think Foye and Carroll really want to be here, and are really part of the team we have built from the bench. This makes the biggest difference in the world.

    As for the rest I would sell them out to give the Jazz a better shot. With all this raw talent in the West, I am sure there are plenty of potential trades offers that will come. If not, I would have no problem re-signing any of them, except Bell. I want players who want to play here, and will do whatever to win the game, even if that means only getting bench minutes.

    I just think we need a "better" starter point guard like I said earlier, and move Mo to a combo SG, or trade him for this new PG. I love Tinsley, he can play this starter I am talking about, I just think we could get some young blood for Mo. All 3 PG will be off contract after this season! So I believe the Jazz are searching for a PG and SG, the SG they have found in Foye(and/or Mo).

    Future of Jazz: Favors, Hayward, Burks, Kanter, Evans and Murphy. See whats missing...a solid PG and SG. Which is why we need Foye and Tinsley.
    Last edited by RyanStorm; 12-23-2012 at 11:52 PM.

  9. #54
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    Tinsley is 250 years old bro
    Hi There

    JAZZ / UTES / LIONS / REDWINGS / TIGERS / ALL-BLACKS

  10. #55
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    ... and outplaying watson. the point is? he's avg-ing the most assists on the team AND we don't lose much potency with him playing. he doesn't play defense, except for late in games when we need him to. i don't get all this tinsley bashing. he's our 3rd string pg for hell's sake.

    i never thought i'd say this, but 99% of the trade ideas are worse than the ones thrown around here during the off-season.
    HAWKS 13 PREMIERS




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  11. #56
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    Ryan i don't know why you are so high on Foye, honestly the only thing he brings is 3pt shooting. he is undersized and can't defense most SG, he can't drive to create open look. seriously you can find many players who can replicate his production, but with improved defense.

  12. #57
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    The only reason I say Foye and Tinsley is that my choices are them or Mo and Watson. Watson is pretty good but not a starter, which is why Tinsley has been starting so much when Mo is out, and isn't doing a terrible job.

    I really think we need outside help at the PG. If I could magically do anything, I would put Mo at the SG position, and bench foye to the bench SG position, and bring in a PG who can run the show and assit Al, Paul and Hayward. Mo can shoot, and be our closer(if he can stay active every game)

    I would keep tinsley for a bench PG, which is why I would keep him(unless I could get someone better). We are just depending on him so much right now, with Mo constantly being injured. So why would I say get rid of him. Mo and Tinsley can't be replaced by players already on the team. Not to mention he is part of our bench squad who are the only reason we don't lose every game(not because of him, but it is a group effort)

    My biggest case against Mo is, if he can't win a Title with LeBron, than he ain't gonna win us a title with Al and Paul. Yeah they got to the eastern conference finals and had a great record, but fell short. Isn't the point of trading someone is to get a team who can win Championships(or as close to that as possible)

    Either we need a Lebron scorer, who can hit 20pts every night(We really need two guys who can hit 20+ a night to combat against teams like OKC), and/or a PG who can assit 10+ a night like Chris Paul(who is leading the Pacific) and we really need someone who can rally the team like Burks does, cause we have enough players hitting 10+ a night, that 2 just need a good 15+ night to win(only problem is, we got 4 different guys randomly getting those 15+ nights(if all could get that each night...we would be just amazing(like how we are at home)).

  13. #58
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    My take on each Jazz man's value to the team or as a trade asset:
    Mo - Solid starting PG, I wouldn't trade him unless we find an elite PG or a young one with lots of potential.
    Tinsley - Decent backup, but I wouldn't be too sad to see him go, and if we get a young guy I don't want Tinsley taking up his minutes.
    Watson - Pretty much the same as Tinsley, only I think Jamaal is slightly more effective.
    Foye - While I like what he's brought to the team, I wouldn't mind trading him while his value's as high as it's going to get and while he's taking minutes from Hayward and especially Burks.
    Hayward - I'd only trade him if it meant getting a young but already established star (eg, Kevin Love). Still, I don't think that's likely to happen.
    Burks - I love Burks's game and think he needs more minutes. Just like last nights game, he doesn't need to put up amazing stats to change the attitude of the game (see his +17 from last night). He also did the same thing last season in games against the Lakers and the T-Wolves. He either needs more minutes or, if he's not going to get them, might as well trade him to somebody who will use him.
    Marvin - Good, but not great player. I love his defense, but wouldn't mind trading him. I think Hayward and Carrol could handle the SF minutes on their own if necessary, but it'd also gives us flexibility to integrate someone like Granger (I wish) into our system
    Carrol - Quite simply, good guys like him don't usually come as cheap as he does. Keep him.
    Murphy - Not much of a trade asset, really, so we might as well keep him, even if he doesn't crack the rotation.
    Favors - See Hayward.
    Kanter - See Hayward.
    Millsap and Jefferson - While there's a strong case to trade either (or both) of them, here's why I prefer keeping Millsap:
    Flexibility: Assuming we don't get a big back in our trades, having 1 PF (Millsap), 1 C (Kanter), and 1 guy that can play both (Favors) for 32 minutes each makes more sense than trying to have 2 Centers (Al and Kanter) try to play with Favors and Evans at PF.
    Salary: Centers are always overpaid (see Javale McGee). Jefferson's probably going to cost a lot more to keep than Millsap after this season.
    Play calling: For Jefferson to be effective, the offense has to run through him. While I won't deny that he is very effective when this is the case, it does limit other players' touches. Millsap doesn't need as many touches to be effective. He makes his livings on offensive boards, putbacks, and getting loose balls. Keeping Millsap will allow Hayward, Burks, Favors, and Kanter to develop more quickly than keeping Jefferson would.
    Again, I love Jefferson's game and what he's brought to the team. However, if we have to trade one of them, I think Big Al's the guy. There's also a strong case for trading both, but I think I've been long winded enough as it is.

  14. #59
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    What you said on Mo, Tins, and Foye are very correct.


    I personally think Favors and Hayward are worth keeping because their price/performance is amazing, and they are both still very young(I would build my team around them). I would only say Kanter if he can develop his game faster like Favors and Hayward have this last year. I just think his price is so good compared to Jeffersons, and kanter actually does something with his minutes even though he is bench, and it will be several years before they have to pay him a "jefferson" salary.
    Give him til next year, and I would put him on the starters, and toss Jefferson on account he costs so much, and his price could easily bring in an all star player in our lack of great Guards(I am comparing our guards to the rest of the west).

    You know what kind of talent we could get for the price of Jefferson and Millsap, and/or even Foye and Marvin?! I personally think next year(or this year), start playing Favors, Hayward and Kanter as prep work for them to be the starters(which they are already doing).
    Then trade Al and Paul to bring in someone who can really play(for their price we could get a westbrook or a chris paul). Like I said, Mo will work at the SG combo if we keep him and get a new PG. He just doesn't compare to Westbrook, Parker, Chris Paul, Lawson, Curry, Lowry, Lin, Lillard, Rubio or Nash!
    If we had any of these guys, we would have an amazing team, especially if Mo was our Bench PG/starter SG.

    Burks I think makes a great overall player on both sides, and is tough. I would add Burks into a Favors/Hayward/Kanter lineup, also on the same idea that he is cheap, young and upcoming.

    I kind of think Mo is good enough to be our PG, I just wish he would stop being injured(and he is out now). Now were going to rely just on Tinsley probably for another month or so who will play against the guys I mentioned above(he is nothing compared to them in the eyes of the NBA)...

    If we got a chris paul or steve nash, we would still have Mo to cycle in. Imagine having Mo be our back up PG, and putting Tinsley back as a 3rd stringer(instead of a starter). Its just sad that we have so much amazing talent in our big guys, but lack more amazing guard position.

    Tell me this PG issue isn't what were lacking....Jazz basketball is best with a leader at PG.

    Next year will be the year when Hayward and Favors will be ready to run this team. I personally want Kanter and Burks to be a part of it. Leaving plenty of opportunity in our bench for Evans and Murphy to move up. We just need to build a team off 2 people, and Millsap and Paul is working(mainly cause our bench is so good), but I believe they aren't good enough(at least they haven't been acting that way as of late, there is still hope for them). I just say this cause they aren't gonna match against LeBron/Bosh's, Dirks/Marions, or Howards/Gasols, especially when these teams have guys like Nash, Wade and OJ Mayos in the guard position.

  15. #60
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    Al is definitely the obvious choice to trade, which is why Jazz asked Paul to stay. He still has a contract but will be a FA after this year, so pretty much he is worth keeping, but is also an amazing trade asset.

    With Favors upcoming, and with Hayward and Kanter building themselves up, I just can't see Al staying on this team when we have plenty of big guys in the the "Big 3" positions, especially when most of them can run the C/PF and others who can PF/SF. I do think the fact that Favors is good enough to take his spot, really opens up Paul to be that go to guy with favors running the paint with rebounds and tip ins(which kanter can also do).


    I want Millsap to stay, I just think he plans to be traded. If we get rid of Al, we might be able to keep him(cause it would open his game time). I personally think we should trade Al, so we can pay for a great PG! Evans who will soon be good enough to run the bench by next year.

    Foye and Marvin have just been in a drought. They are still both good talent, but still great trade value like you said!

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