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  1. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lo Porto View Post
    People say this all the time, but I fail to see the results. Kanter has about the same offensive game now as I saw when we were doing pre-draft recon on the guy. As for Favors, it seems like he hasn't progressed one bit in the year playing with Al. The guy seems to have zero clue what to do as an offensive focal point in the lane. I fail to see the results of Al's supposed "mentoring" and "post coaching" of Kanter and Favors.


    Well lo Porto I've always questioned your knowledge of the game so it doesn't suprise me you think this way. I think ill personally go with what the general manager, coaches, and David locke over guy that watches game from tv with questionable knowledge of what's actually happening

  2. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by nothappyinut View Post
    Well lo Porto I've always questioned your knowledge of the game so it doesn't suprise me you think this way. I think ill personally go with what the general manager, coaches, and David locke over guy that watches game from tv with questionable knowledge of what's actually happening
    Nothappy, I could care less what you think of my knowledge. People say all the time that Al is doing wonders for Favors and Kanter with their development. To be honest, Favors hasn't shown me much improvement. He hasn't shown me the type of slow it up, back it down offense that Al uses. So what is Al showing him that everyone is bragging on Al about?

    In Minnesota, Love was this decent player that might have learned a lot from Al. But nobody knew anything until they got rid of Al and actually played Love in a more free flowing offense. And what happened? Love was unleashed.

    We can't just keep Al forever because he may or may not be teaching Favors and Kanter how to play basketball. In my "questionable" opinion, it's supposed to be the job of the coaching staff to train the future of our franchise instead of paying a good player star money to do it.

  3. #288
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    Al is worth every penny he gets at around 15mil. I was merely saying just because you don't see the work doesn't mean it isn't actually happening that's where your lack of knowledge comes in. Again I'm sure you feel with all your might that what you see is correct but you might want to look at things differently if people like Dennis Lindsey are saying the complete opposite of what your saying, seeing he has a far greater knowledge of anything and everything jazz basketball and player personnel then any ps forum poster!!!!

  4. #289
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    What if Utah got rid of Al, and Paul Millsap was unleashed? That man is in his prime (like Al), but Paul has always been 2nd option on the inside game (with Booze/Okur and now Jefferson) What if Paul got a chance to take those duties with Favors along side to be what Paul was 5 years ago?
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  5. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by nothappyinut View Post
    Al is worth every penny he gets at around 15mil. I was merely saying just because you don't see the work doesn't mean it isn't actually happening that's where your lack of knowledge comes in. Again I'm sure you feel with all your might that what you see is correct but you might want to look at things differently if people like Dennis Lindsey are saying the complete opposite of what your saying, seeing he has a far greater knowledge of anything and everything jazz basketball and player personnel then any ps forum poster!!!!
    Al is not worth $15 million. With him this season, we are a .500 team. The guy has never made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs. It's proven that you don't build your team around him. He's a 2nd or 3rd option type player plain and simple. He's at the peak of his career right now and he's not an All Star. Is he even getting serious consideration? Why should we pay him All Star type money and 25% of our allotted team salary especially considering he's not at an age where his game, athleticism, entire package is going to improve?

    If I had to guess, our new GM is very savvy. He's talking Al up because in the process, he's talking his value up.

  6. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumba View Post
    What if Utah got rid of Al, and Paul Millsap was unleashed? That man is in his prime (like Al), but Paul has always been 2nd option on the inside game (with Booze/Okur and now Jefferson) What if Paul got a chance to take those duties with Favors along side to be what Paul was 5 years ago?
    Because people are afraid to think of life without a max contract player weighing down our books. I love the idea of trading Al for assets with one of those assets being a player who can help us now. Of course our starters will take a hit, but our team chemistry and the fluidity of our offense and defense could potentially improve. Either way, we stand to lose the guy or over pay him this summer. I like the aggressive approach. And I, like you, think that Millsap, Favors and Kanter could work well.

  7. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lo Porto View Post
    Al is not worth $15 million. With him this season, we are a .500 team. The guy has never made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs. It's proven that you don't build your team around him. He's a 2nd or 3rd option type player plain and simple. He's at the peak of his career right now and he's not an All Star. Is he even getting serious consideration? Why should we pay him All Star type money and 25% of our allotted team salary especially considering he's not at an age where his game, athleticism, entire package is going to improve?

    If I had to guess, our new GM is very savvy. He's talking Al up because in the process, he's talking his value up.
    C'mon Lo...Last year you bashed Jefferson for being a big time loser and basing all of your arguments against him on never making it to the playoffs. He proved you wrong last year, now you're saying he never made it to the second round? Should the Jazz make it to the second round, is next year 3rd round?

    I don't know if you've been watching the games at all, but Jefferson is a legit 1st option type of player. Not one of the elite players in the league but a good enough player to carry us and keep us in the game on a consistent basis. If you can take your guy one on one and consistently score, seems like a 1st option type to me...

  8. #293
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    I'm too lazy to read all the pages of this thread, but I would like to comment on the development of Enes. I definitely see improvement in his game if for no other aspect than simply his development of a dependable shot out to about 18 feet. He can reliably hit the face up jumper. That's valuable.


    During a game in 1982, Frank Layden, then head coach of the Utah Jazz, had seen enough of his team's poor performance and wanted an early exit. Layden verbally abused Strom so he could get ejected from the game. Strom knew what he was trying to do, and when Layden asked why he didn't eject him, Strom replied, "I know what you're trying to do, Frank, but if I've got to stay out here and watch this $#!^, so do you".

  9. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdood View Post
    C'mon Lo...Last year you bashed Jefferson for being a big time loser and basing all of your arguments against him on never making it to the playoffs. He proved you wrong last year, now you're saying he never made it to the second round? Should the Jazz make it to the second round, is next year 3rd round?

    I don't know if you've been watching the games at all, but Jefferson is a legit 1st option type of player. Not one of the elite players in the league but a good enough player to carry us and keep us in the game on a consistent basis. If you can take your guy one on one and consistently score, seems like a 1st option type to me...
    I never said that Jefferson couldn't take us to the playoffs. I said that he couldn't take us past the first round. I've said that from day one. You can't build your franchise around Al Jefferson. Of course he looks like a good #1 option because we give him the ball about 90% of the times down the court when he's in the game. Hell, I bet there are All Stars that don't get to touch the ball as much as Al per half court possession.

    The guy is good. I know he has skills. I have 3 issues with the guy - #1 he costs us near max when he's never proven at any stage of his career to put up the overpowering stats or win to prove that he's worth near max money. #2 I don't think he's a guy you build your team around because if you've been in the league a decade, you've established that better than Al has by now. #3 If you consider the fact that he's been in the league about a decade already, how much longer do you expect for him to be relevant with his slow down game, average athleticism and average jump shot?

    I'm a realist. If you were to bet on who would have the best career the next 5 years between Millsap and Al, your best bet would be Millsap. That's simply because his size, athleticism, position, contract, work ethic and time in the league. I absolutely hate the idea of giving Al Jefferson $15 million a year. To me, it's the worst idea on the table. Of course I'm not his biggest fan, but it's not like I hate the guy. I just care about the Jazz more than any one player.

  10. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lo Porto View Post
    I never said that Jefferson couldn't take us to the playoffs. I said that he couldn't take us past the first round. I've said that from day one. You can't build your franchise around Al Jefferson. Of course he looks like a good #1 option because we give him the ball about 90% of the times down the court when he's in the game. Hell, I bet there are All Stars that don't get to touch the ball as much as Al per half court possession.

    The guy is good. I know he has skills. I have 3 issues with the guy - #1 he costs us near max when he's never proven at any stage of his career to put up the overpowering stats or win to prove that he's worth near max money. #2 I don't think he's a guy you build your team around because if you've been in the league a decade, you've established that better than Al has by now. #3 If you consider the fact that he's been in the league about a decade already, how much longer do you expect for him to be relevant with his slow down game, average athleticism and average jump shot?

    I'm a realist. If you were to bet on who would have the best career the next 5 years between Millsap and Al, your best bet would be Millsap. That's simply because his size, athleticism, position, contract, work ethic and time in the league. I absolutely hate the idea of giving Al Jefferson $15 million a year. To me, it's the worst idea on the table. Of course I'm not his biggest fan, but it's not like I hate the guy. I just care about the Jazz more than any one player.
    Here is something real, Jefferson and Millsap are the same age. Jefferson has and still puts up better numbers than Millsap. Millsap doesn't have size and is an undersized PF. Millsap doesn't have superior athleticism for a PF. The guy doesn't have a huge reach and doesn't jump out of the building. He does have better skill then most, but the same can be said for Jefferson. If you compare by position, Jefferson has way more skill since it is harder to find quality centers. Millsap is the more versatile out of the 2 since he can play PF and SF. Good centers are much harder to come by than PF's and SF's. Both have good work ethic which is why they are good players.

    To want to pay someone $15M a year is debatable. IMO paying Jefferson $15M/year is better than paying Millsap $10M/year. Either way, I hope we keep one of the two, if not both. This crap about letting both go for Favors and Kanter is ridiculous. Like I've stated before, having 3 good bigs can work since we've done it in the past.

  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdood View Post
    Here is something real, Jefferson and Millsap are the same age. Jefferson has and still puts up better numbers than Millsap. Millsap doesn't have size and is an undersized PF. Millsap doesn't have superior athleticism for a PF. The guy doesn't have a huge reach and doesn't jump out of the building. He does have better skill then most, but the same can be said for Jefferson. If you compare by position, Jefferson has way more skill since it is harder to find quality centers. Millsap is the more versatile out of the 2 since he can play PF and SF. Good centers are much harder to come by than PF's and SF's. Both have good work ethic which is why they are good players.

    To want to pay someone $15M a year is debatable. IMO paying Jefferson $15M/year is better than paying Millsap $10M/year. Either way, I hope we keep one of the two, if not both. This crap about letting both go for Favors and Kanter is ridiculous. Like I've stated before, having 3 good bigs can work since we've done it in the past.
    Jefferson and Millsap are the same age. And I do concede that Jefferson is the slightly better player. However, Millsap played 3 years in college when Al was playing 82 games in the NBA. The wear and tear of college is nothing like pro. I also feel that Millsap's game is much more adaptable than Al's. When Al is in the game, it's almost as if the offense HAS to go through him because he's not really suitable to be helpful off the ball, spotting up, cutting, etc. If Favors and/or Kanter were to emerge, are we to completely switch the offense to run it around Al when he comes off the bench?

    When it comes to money, I think it's simple - you have as many guys in the NBA making around $15 that teams want to dump as guys making around the same that teams are desperate to keep. And when a team is saddled with a massive contract like that they are trying to dump, it kills them for years. I think we learned from the AK situation that we shouldn't give anybody max or near max money unless they are an elite NBA star type talent. You don't give that type of money out just because that guy just happens to be your best player at the moment. That logic gets you into trouble.

  12. #297
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    100% agree on that AK/Al contract assessment
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  13. #298
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    I agree. Al is not worth 15 mil a year because of his defense. I don't see our team killing the cap space like we did with AK47.

  14. #299
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    don't kidd yourself Al might not be worth 15, but he will get at least a 15 mill offer from someone. if roy hibbert can get a max, deandre jordan gets over 10 mill, kg got 13 mill at 36 years old. big men get paid

  15. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhopisthename View Post
    don't kidd yourself Al might not be worth 15, but he will get at least a 15 mill offer from someone. if roy hibbert can get a max, deandre jordan gets over 10 mill, kg got 13 mill at 36 years old. big men get paid
    That was Roy Hibbert's and Deandre Jordan's 1st contracts after their rookie deals. They still had potential. Al, on the other hand, has had a decade to show who he is and isn't. He is good. He isn't elite. Big market or desperate teams can afford to pay a good player elite player type money. We're not a big market team and I don't think we're desperate enough to have to pay him that.

    As for KG, the guy is a Hall of Famer. He's still one of the best defending big men in the game who can play PF or C. He's still got 18 foot range and he's a great passer. He's the type player who could play with anybody. I'd pay him $13 million and not think twice about it.

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