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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    The latest updates have the deal being expanded beyond the names mentioned already. So, what's the Jays only real weak point right now? Adam Lind. Other than Davis there's very little the Mets could deal the Jays that would make sense. Its pretty obvious the Jays aren't looking for prospects so that pretty much only leaves Davis. That's logic.
    Nobody is mentioning Niese, who the Jays prefer more than Dickey. There were early reports that the Jays were insisting on Niese if D’Arnaud was included. Maybe AA worked his magic once again and was able to get the Mets to include Niese in the deal.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by venom518 View Post
    Nobody is mentioning Niese, who the Jays prefer more than Dickey. There were early reports that the Jays were insisting on Niese if D’Arnaud was included. Maybe AA worked his magic once again and was able to get the Mets to include Niese in the deal.
    That is possible and makes some sense. Then AA can flip Buehrle to recoup some prospects (and save money that will go towards Dickey). edit: nvm, I thought you meant getting both...
    Last edited by blujaysrock; 12-15-2012 at 08:11 AM.
    "The way they play offense here is difficult for any quarterback," he said. "Every snap is an incredible decision. They're in a one-back offense, they can't run the ball against certain looks so they have to audible to some kind of a pass or a creative run to get away from trouble.
    "There's never a play in the game where Stafford can just turn around, hand the ball off and catch his breath. Every play he's researching the defense and they throw as much as anyone."


  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by venom518 View Post
    Nobody is mentioning Niese, who the Jays prefer more than Dickey. There were early reports that the Jays were insisting on Niese if D’Arnaud was included. Maybe AA worked his magic once again and was able to get the Mets to include Niese in the deal.
    Id think that Davis would be a priority over Niese, assuming Dickey was already in the offer.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg42 View Post
    If you feel that way, then there is nothing I can do about it.

    But the other options you gave us were a catcher who is a .220 hitter who's 26 (JPA), and a young but questionable outfielder who struck out about 32% of the time during his first Major League stint. Mind you that you're getting a Cy Young award pitcher who won 20 games, with the lowest ERA in the NL, with a very bad, mediocre Mets team. He also led the NL in strikeouts, and had only 9 less strikeouts than Justin Verlander.

    Remember, the Mets are looking for a player that going to make an impact for 2014-2015. Higher probability it's d'Arnaud that makes that impact rather than the 26 year old .220 hitting catcher. The young outfielder is nice age wise, but he's too much of a risk.
    You don't need to me the merits of R.A. Dickey or some of the deficiencies or J.P. Arencibia. I'm well aware of both and I'd really like Dickey to be traded to the Jays.

    It should also be noted that every time you or other Mets fans reference Arencibia, you do so as if he'd be the primary player you'd be getting back, when he's clearly secondary to Gose who embodies all the qualities you claim you want in return. He too is a highly regarded prospect.

    That being said, my problem with trading D'Arnaud is that he's easily one of the top 15 prospects in baseball and his value is, or at least should be, higher than R.A. Dickey's. Some people are dismissing his value simply because he's a prospect, but I'm guessing those same people would not make that ridiculous argument if this was the Mets trading Dickey to Texas and asking for Profar. Just having prospect status doesn't mean their value is insignificant. I'd rather have D'Arnaud than Dickey, and I'm sure Mets fans would too.

    The same people who claim Dickey's performance is amazing so his value is sky high would also probably recognize that Wheeler and Niese's value is higher and they haven't had the same performance... yet. So we can probably stop assuming that value is tied to recent performance only, but also projected future performance.
    Last edited by mtf; 12-15-2012 at 08:16 AM.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by blujaysrock View Post
    That is possible and makes some sense. Then AA can flip Buehrle to recoup some prospects (and save money that will go towards Dickey). edit: nvm, I thought you meant getting both...
    I did mean getting both.

  6. #81
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    davis + dickey for TDA, Gose + Snydergaard + another prospect, think that would work



  7. #82
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    JonHeymanCBS
    word is, there is agreement on players in dickey trade with #jays. @MartinoNYDN suggests medicals being reviewed.
    "The way they play offense here is difficult for any quarterback," he said. "Every snap is an incredible decision. They're in a one-back offense, they can't run the ball against certain looks so they have to audible to some kind of a pass or a creative run to get away from trouble.
    "There's never a play in the game where Stafford can just turn around, hand the ball off and catch his breath. Every play he's researching the defense and they throw as much as anyone."


  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    That being said, my problem with trading D'Arnaud is that he's easily one of the top 15 prospects in baseball and his value is, or at least should be, higher than R.A. Dickey's. Some people are dismissing his value simply because he's a prospect, but I'm guessing those same people would not make that ridiculous argument if this was the Mets trading Dickey to Texas and asking for Profar. Just having prospect status doesn't mean their value is insignificant. I'd rather have D'Arnaud than Dickey, and I'm sure Mets fans would too.

    The same people who claim Dickey's performance is amazing so his value is sky high would also probably recognize that Niese's value is higher and he hasn't had the same performance. So we can probably stop assuming that value is tied to recent performance only, but also projected future performance.
    Same or higher than Dickey???? Dickey is a Cy Young award winner who is more likely to have another great season. As good as d'Arnaud is being projected to be, and as good of numbers as he has put up in the minors, he is still a higher risk to us. The probability that Dickey has two more ace like seasons is higher than the probability that d'Arnaud turns out to be a total superstar. The risk is more laid on us by taking d'Arnaud. Like MANY minor leaguers, he could turn out being a bust.

    And Gose is not what I want in return because I can smell the .240 avg, 160-180k seasons from a mile away. I could be wrong, but he's not the main package for a trade involving an ace Cy Young winner.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncleben989 View Post
    davis + dickey for TDA, Gose + Snydergaard + another prospect, think that would work
    Sorry but no.

  10. #85
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    Also to think Gose should be a centerpiece for a deal getting an ace and Cy Young award winner, he's not even in the list of your top ten prospects:

    http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...3/2614294.html

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    Sorry but no.
    then what do you think would we need to give up for both, we solve another problem if we somehow get davis



  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg42 View Post
    Same or higher than Dickey???? Dickey is a Cy Young award winner who is more likely to have another great season. As good as d'Arnaud is being projected to be, and as good of numbers as he has put up in the minors, he is still a higher risk to us. The probability that Dickey has two more ace like seasons is higher than the probability that d'Arnaud turns out to be a total superstar. The risk is more laid on us by taking d'Arnaud. Like MANY minor leaguers, he could turn out being a bust.

    And Gose is not what I want in return because I can smell the .240 avg, 160-180k seasons from a mile away. I could be wrong, but he's not the main package for a trade involving an ace Cy Young winner.
    Okay, what's more valuable, one great year from Dickey vs a decade of borderline all star numbers from a catcher? What Mets fans can't seem to understand, Gose' value is in his defense and base running, even with a weak bat, he can still be a 4 WAR type of outfielder. That should tell you his potential if thats him with a weak bat. With an average bat this guys a hell of a player. Mets fans point to his bat because they don't understand how good his defense and running is.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg42 View Post
    Same or higher than Dickey???? Dickey is a Cy Young award winner who is more likely to have another great season. As good as d'Arnaud is being projected to be, and as good of numbers as he has put up in the minors, he is still a higher risk to us. The probability that Dickey has two more ace like seasons is higher than the probability that d'Arnaud turns out to be a total superstar. The risk is more laid on us by taking d'Arnaud. Like MANY minor leaguers, he could turn out being a bust.

    And Gose is not what I want in return because I can smell the .240 avg, 160-180k seasons from a mile away. I could be wrong, but he's not the main package for a trade involving an ace Cy Young winner.
    I don't think you read my post. I am not projecting numbers for anyone. I am talking about current value. I tried to make that clear by posting examples of players in the Mets organization who have more value than Dickey currently instead of just Blue Jays players and prospects so that maybe that point would be illustrated clearly. I guess it was unsuccessful.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg42 View Post
    Also to think Gose should be a centerpiece for a deal getting an ace and Cy Young award winner, he's not even in the list of your top ten prospects:

    http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...3/2614294.html
    Well yeah, he has too many at bats to qualify as a spec now.

  15. #90
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    Blue Jays are going all in to win right now... The need an ace more than another young catcher. The Mets are trying to save money and get younger, this deal makes sense both ways.

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