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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd25213 View Post
    This, even in other sports it doesn't always work out. Outside of the Celtics, no NBA won a title in their first year after spending big (for the Heat, it was their second season). Other teams that spent big in the NBA are the Lakers, and look how that is turning out. Same with the NFL. The Eagles, Cowboys, and Chiefs all spent big in free agency and look at their seasons this year.
    This and a few follow-ups

    First the one early poster who noted that we won 4 out of 5 when had homegrown talent is dead right. Its very hard to buy a championship and impossible to buy multiple championships, you need to build within. When you have a homegrown core you can build a dynasty. But in baseball even that is hard (take a look at the Braves who were more or less as successful as the Yankees during their run, that is except in October). That Braves team should have won at least three world series, they got one (thanks large in part to Jim Leyritz and Jack Morris). Sometimes you just need special players.

    On the point here, the NBA is actually the only sport I know where you can buy a ring. Working within the NBA is navigating through the cap. In the NBA one player can make you a contender. Look at Cleveland. They lost LeBron and they are bottom feeders. Miami went out and purchased Lebron,Wade and Bosch and they have a two championship appearance and a win. Its all about math, Baseball, football, and to a lesser extent Hockey require many different pieces, the NBA you play 5, and you can play those same five for 70% of the game.

    Another poster said moneyball is not signing a guy to a 1 year 13 million. I agree if you are playing Billy Beane Money ball...but he doesn't own the only play on those words. If you are the Yankees you live in a different universe as Oakland when it comes to how you spend, but the concept is dollars and sense.


    The Yankees made decisions in 2007 and 2008 that affected 2009. In those moves the only bad one was not resigning A-rod but for doing so at 10/270 when the most he would have gotten from anyone was 200 million. After his little stunt (with Boras advising him) 8/27 would have been enough (216 million overall). The real shame of it all, is that by A-rod Opting out he cost us by allowing Texas to have the extra cash to get Lee. Texas was paying a chunk of A-rods contract (makes you think if he was overpaid in 2004 why would he not be when he was 4 years older). Would have loved to get A-Rod off the books in 2016, but that won't happen. The only real hope is that by 2016 he is somewhat productive (e.g. 140 Games 25HR 80RBI 75 Runs .250ish, and chasing some HR numbers). If this happens we might be able to move him to Florida where he could put some fans in the seats over there while we dump 40% of his contract for that last year or two). Of course he needs to stay health to do that a problem he has had for almost the entire contract extension.

    My hope is obviously that this team is playoff bound and the veteran leadership can pull out another one. BUT if that doesn't happen, I hope for the opposite, which is the team just falls out of contention fast. With that I would hope the Yankees trade Cano to a contender. Cano will be 31 next year he has likely 3 good seasons left before decline will set in. If Cano can net the Yankees an organization's best and fifth best player, along with a first round draft pick (albeit late) this would be a great way to rebuild. Unlike most teams Yankee Rebuilding can happen rapidly, because the Yankees have money. All the Yankees need is for Pineida, one of the Yankees young pitchers to show life, along with some talent for Cano, and the Yankees can enter the free agent market again. The thing I don't want is the Yankees to band aid up the team and take on bad contracts, and stay medicore. This has been a great run - from 1996-2012, 17 years this team has won five word series appeared in seven, they have also won over a dozen division championships. If they don't make the playoffs in 2013 and 2014, but come back in 2015 with an exciting group of young players through some good trades, they will have the ability to get right back in the mix in 2016. Alternatively if they pile on long-term old players it will be a long long time till we hang up another world series banner.

  2. #17
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    Sandy anderson would have our farm ontop. Hes traded 2 players and gotten back 2 top rotation and catcher .

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobshirleyrules View Post
    So we see Hamilton get 5 years 125 million per, Anibel Sanchez gets 6/80 million, Greinke 6yr 147 million, BJ Upton 5/75, Napoli 3/39, Hunter 2/26, Victorino 3/39.

    Frankly I'm happy we didn't bite at any one of them. Look I know this isn't George's team, but in baseball especially with the 189 million number, staying away from these guys is a blessing in disguise. Said another way I would be shocked if any of these players live up to their contracts.

    Frankly I feel alot better about Pettite 1/12, Kuroda 1/15. Call me crazy but two pitching years for 2/27 versus Hunter for 2/26. Is there any doubt who got the better bargain. So the Yankees sign Ichiro 2/13. I believe Ichiro (who I think is built for Yankee Stadium) will give us better stats than Upton, Hunter or Victorino.

    Look I know its odd to see the Yankees not go after free agents, but this is the right move. Getting under 189 million is a reset. Stay above and its like taking on 95 million (50% Luxury tax). Get below it and your at the 17% luxury tax level for a while. There is mor... once the Yankees achieve this they are free to spend again.

    The other thing about this is that it makes sense on many levels. Frankly this free agent class does not impress me much. But every year is a year closer to the end of A-rod's contract which is now an absolute killer. While Tex and CC are performing, its at about 60-75% of what their contracts are worth. Average those three out and you have about 85 million performing at the level of what you would expect from about 40 million. Throw in Jeter's inflated legacy contract (although that contract is not looking all that bad as he had a solid 2011 campaign (specifically starting in June), and a MVP-7 2012) I would say Jeter earned about 85% of his contract which is fantastic on any free agent.

    My point here is that sitting tight makes sense. Let us go year to year. Is there anyone out there we really want? Yankees have the ability to pay whatever and whenever, few teams have this. But there comes a time where this doesn't work. By being forced to stand pat the Yankees are clearing the way for being in a better position with free agents in the future.

    In the mean time California baseball will see the same demise as the Baltimore Orioles in the late 90's. Isn't it ironic but its the penny wise Giants who are winning. So when you read that Hamilton fell off the Wagon (the guy has average only about 125 games played over the last 4 years) don't be surprised!
    Just a little nit picking but it is a 50% tax on what you go over. We would not be taking on 95 mill. If we were at 200 mill next season we would pay a 50% tax on the 11 mill overage, not the entire 200 mill. Great post though.


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  4. #19
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    30 Team Stadium Checklist: 10 to go

    1) Yankees 2) Orioles 3) Rays 4) Red Sox 5) Mets 6) Braves 7) Phillies 8) Nationals 9) Marlins 10) Pirates 11) Padres 12) Astros 13) Mariners 14) Twins 15) Cubs 16) White Sox 17) Cardinals 18) Indians 19) Tigers 20) Royals


  5. #20
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    small contracts are the way to roll
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  6. #21
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    I'd really like to see them nab Bourn for a reasonable price.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kidd>>>K-Mart View Post
    I'd really like to see them nab Bourn for a reasonable price.
    i still think someone will over pay for him, and pray it isnt us
    30 Team Stadium Checklist: 10 to go

    1) Yankees 2) Orioles 3) Rays 4) Red Sox 5) Mets 6) Braves 7) Phillies 8) Nationals 9) Marlins 10) Pirates 11) Padres 12) Astros 13) Mariners 14) Twins 15) Cubs 16) White Sox 17) Cardinals 18) Indians 19) Tigers 20) Royals


  8. #23
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    Right Move???

    This may seem like the right move for Steinbrenners but not for the Yankee fans. If they continue this path, the Yankees can forget the World Series for the near future. While they don't have a bad team, I doubt they will make the playoffs in 2013 or the next few years. At this point, they are clearly not as good as they were last year. They could easily finish last in the AL East. There is simply no way that the Yankees can drop to 189 million and put a cutting edge championship team on the field. This problem exist because of the bad, long term contracts of A-Rod and others. With these stars declining, there is no way you remedy the problem now without crippling the team's ability to win a World Series. This payroll cutting move should be done, but only after these bad contracts can be dumped. The Yankees, of all teams, could afford to wait unit then. Otherwise, Yankee fans will enter the 2013 with no chance to win a championship. It seems hard to believe. Clearly, Hal doesn't have the commitment to putting a winner on the field like George.

  9. #24
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    2009 World Champs
    2010 ALCS
    2011 ALDS
    2012 ALCS

    Is that so horrible?

    I support the one year deal gig.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by leoharris View Post
    2009 World Champs
    2010 ALCS
    2011 ALDS
    2012 ALCS

    Is that so horrible?

    I support the one year deal gig.
    and here is the obvious and customary yankee reaction going into this year after that:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU0PijNCEwo
    30 Team Stadium Checklist: 10 to go

    1) Yankees 2) Orioles 3) Rays 4) Red Sox 5) Mets 6) Braves 7) Phillies 8) Nationals 9) Marlins 10) Pirates 11) Padres 12) Astros 13) Mariners 14) Twins 15) Cubs 16) White Sox 17) Cardinals 18) Indians 19) Tigers 20) Royals


  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by leoharris View Post
    2009 World Champs
    2010 ALCS
    2011 ALDS
    2012 ALCS

    Is that so horrible?

    I support the one year deal gig.
    This whole thing began with them spending big though. Not like they were doing one year deals in 2009.

  12. #27
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    The Yankees cannot win with Money ball. Cashman is terrible at making trades, He's a a garbage talent evaluater. Remember when we traded Sheffield and Randy Johnson for top prospects? Those prospects all turned out to be busts. We spend alot of money on international prospects and the draft every year but cannot produce any quality players.

    I dont know why everybody is buying this Idea of us getting under 189M for luxury tax purposes. Its clear Hal wants to sell the team. Whenever a team is about to be sold the first thing that start doing is cutting payroll. He's using the new cap system as an excuse.

    Why are we cutting payroll when all these teams are dramatically increasing their payrolls. The dodgers have surpassed us and still havent set a limit, the Angels are approaching our payroll, the Tigers continue to spend, and so are a bunch of other teams. It makes no sence that we should be worried about out payroll.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFG-NYC View Post
    The Yankees cannot win with Money ball. Cashman is terrible at making trades, He's a a garbage talent evaluater. Remember when we traded Sheffield and Randy Johnson for top prospects? Those prospects all turned out to be busts. We spend alot of money on international prospects and the draft every year but cannot produce any quality players.

    I dont know why everybody is buying this Idea of us getting under 189M for luxury tax purposes. Its clear Hal wants to sell the team. Whenever a team is about to be sold the first thing that start doing is cutting payroll. He's using the new cap system as an excuse.

    Why are we cutting payroll when all these teams are dramatically increasing their payrolls. The dodgers have surpassed us and still havent set a limit, the Angels are approaching our payroll, the Tigers continue to spend, and so are a bunch of other teams. It makes no sence that we should be worried about out payroll.
    Sheffield was 38 when he was traded and Johnson was 43. Neither returned "top prospects."

    Why is it hard to believe the Steinbrenners want to get under 189M to save luxury tax?

    And the other teams continue to spend but only the Dodgers will spend more than the Yankees do in 2013.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by samuelarmstrong View Post
    This may seem like the right move for Steinbrenners but not for the Yankee fans. If they continue this path, the Yankees can forget the World Series for the near future. While they don't have a bad team, I doubt they will make the playoffs in 2013 or the next few years. At this point, they are clearly not as good as they were last year. They could easily finish last in the AL East. There is simply no way that the Yankees can drop to 189 million and put a cutting edge championship team on the field. This problem exist because of the bad, long term contracts of A-Rod and others. With these stars declining, there is no way you remedy the problem now without crippling the team's ability to win a World Series. This payroll cutting move should be done, but only after these bad contracts can be dumped. The Yankees, of all teams, could afford to wait unit then. Otherwise, Yankee fans will enter the 2013 with no chance to win a championship. It seems hard to believe. Clearly, Hal doesn't have the commitment to putting a winner on the field like George.
    I doubt they will finish last. Tampa has gotten worse, Baltimore has done nothing to get better, Boston has made a bunch of questionable signings, and Toronto has become the Miami Marlins.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by theslick1 View Post
    I doubt they will finish last. Tampa has gotten worse, Baltimore has done nothing to get better, Boston has made a bunch of questionable signings, and Toronto has become the Miami Marlins.
    We won 95 games last year.

    Lost Russell martin and Nick Swisher.

    Same rotation.

    I don't see us winning 95 games again, but I highly doubt we finish last.

    Yankees fan's are really unbelievable.

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