Money Ball - What the Yankees are doing right

[sauronthepower]

Pineda missed part of the 2009 season due to injury.

He came back and pitched the entire 2010 season (11-4, 3.36 ERA in 25 starts) and his K/9 rate was identical to what it had been prior to injury.

He pitched the entire 2011 season (9-10, 3.74 ERA in 28 starts). With the exception of 4 of those starts, he started every game on either 4 or 5 days rest. In September, they gave him 6 days rest twice and his last start of the season came on 10 days rest.

In 2010 he was shut down against the '09 injury as a precaution at 140 innings (hardly a full season)

http://seattletimes.com/html/mariner...pineda_sh.html (I especially liked the part about him having not one, but TWO stints to the disabled list in 09 referenced in that article).

Nope.....nothing at all for any of you folks to see.....Brian Cashman had absolutely NO, read that zero, indication that Michael Pineda had any sort of prior physical ailment history. None.

(slick.....since I like you.....let's just say that the face palm isn't so much directed at you as towards a few others and keep it at that)

In post #102 you are trying to infer that he was never shut down and now you're admitting after two days of back and forth on this that he did indeed have an injury history going back to '09.

Am I tripping on some reeaaalllllllyyyyyyyyyy good over the counter NyQuil or are you now trying to make my own supporting argument against you for me ??????????????????????????????

Preach boy preach

Um....................................yeah!

[oak2455]

Sauron Raul left the building time for a new sig how bout that gal

[sauronthepower]

Sauron Raul left the building time for a new sig how bout that gal

I'm gettin to it.

The damn iPad for some reason doesn't want to cooperate on saving and uploading and I'm being really lazy about using the desktop.

[theslick1]

In 2010 he was shut down against the '09 injury as a precaution at 140 innings (hardly a full season)

He was definitely hurt in 2009. He wasn't hurt in 2010. He wasn't hurt in 2011. And 140 innings is close to being a full season for a minor leaguer. Scranton had just two guys pitch more than that last year.

From the article you cited:

Zduriencik stressed, "There are no issues here. There's nothing physically wrong with him. It's strictly an innings issue."

He had pitched just 47 innings in 2009 and was at 140 innings in 2010 so they shut him down for the last month of the year.

[LeoYankee]

Pineda. Won't see him no more.

[LeoYankee]

But yes, that trade was a win at the time.

Montero is awful.

[sauronthepower]

http://seattletimes.com/html/mariner...pineda_sh.html I]!

"There are no physical problems, but the Mariners decided to make the move pre-emptively, because Pineda has reached nearly 140 innings. He threw just 47 last year and also had two stints on the disabled list with elbow problems." (paragraph 1, sentence 2)

So....................................there were no problems at the shut down BUT there were elbow issues twice the previous year that they felt the need to guard against.

Either way, the injury history and resume was there. Even if we take the GM's proactive protection assessment at 100% face value with no company spin, the bottom line is that Pineda was DL'd TWICE the previous year with issues that would seem to me to be a pretty important part of a young pitcher.

But again, Cashman saw nothing and had no worries because Pineda was totally "risk free."

[theslick1]

"There are no physical problems, but the Mariners decided to make the move pre-emptively, because Pineda has reached nearly 140 innings. He threw just 47 last year and also had two stints on the disabled list with elbow problems." (paragraph 1, sentence 2)

So....................................there were no problems at the shut down BUT there were elbow issues twice the previous year that they felt the need to guard against.

Either way, the injury history and resume was there. Even if we take the GM's proactive protection assessment at 100% face value with no company spin, the bottom line is that Pineda was DL'd TWICE the previous year with issues that would seem to me to be a pretty important part of a young pitcher.

But again, Cashman saw nothing and had no worries because Pineda was totally "risk free."

Saur, how do you know what Cashman saw or what he was worried about? And where did Cashman ever say that Pineda was "risk free"? That would be ridiculous. No player is "risk free," especially not a pitcher. The Yankees gave Andy Pettitte 12M and he spent more time on the DL last year than he did on the field. Bad deal?

If the Mariners knew that Pineda was damaged goods, do you think it's possible that Cashman knew Montero wasn't all he was cracked up to be and he was just trying to get whatever he could get for him? And that maybe the best he could get was a young pitcher who had been hurt in 2009 but had pitched without injury the two subsequent years?

Pineda was a calculated risk that (so far) hasn't paid off. In a best case, he returns to form and the Yankees get what they bargained for. In a worst case, he never returns to form and we gave away Montero for nothing.

[sauronthepower]

Saur, how do you know what Cashman saw or what he was worried about? And where did Cashman ever say that Pineda was "risk free"? That would be ridiculous. No player is "risk free," especially not a pitcher. The Yankees gave Andy Pettitte 12M and he spent more time on the DL last year than he did on the field. Bad deal?

If the Mariners knew that Pineda was damaged goods, do you think it's possible that Cashman knew Montero wasn't all he was cracked up to be and he was just trying to get whatever he could get for him? And that maybe the best he could get was a young pitcher who had been hurt in 2009 but had pitched without injury the two subsequent years?

Pineda was a calculated risk that (so far) hasn't paid off. In a best case, he returns to form and the Yankees get what they bargained for. In a worst case, he never returns to form and we gave away Montero for nothing.

But, again, we gave away our greatest offensive prospect not named Cano since Jeter, a guy we had repeatedly hoarded in higher return, blue chip trade talks for a guy who DID have a verifiable injury history and who did have a record of being shut down.

Now if Montero goes out and breaks his hand in a barfight or develops a bad back then yeah we got a fair deal. As it stands though we are on the severe losing end and it could've been avoided because there were prefix sting question marks with Pineda.

[LeoYankee]

But, again, we gave away our greatest offensive prospect not named Cano since Jeter, a guy we had repeatedly hoarded in higher return, blue chip trade talks for a guy who DID have a verifiable injury history and who did have a record of being shut down.

Now if Montero goes out and breaks his hand in a barfight or develops a bad back then yeah we got a fair deal. As I standsnthoughnwe are on the severe losing end and it could've been avoided because there were prefix sting question marks with Pineda.

Is this a new word from the Obama educational program?

[sauronthepower]

Is this a new word from the Obama educational program?

:cry:

Awesome AND fixed.

[LeoYankee]

[bfrap]

"There are no physical problems, but the Mariners decided to make the move pre-emptively, because Pineda has reached nearly 140 innings. He threw just 47 last year and also had two stints on the disabled list with elbow problems." (paragraph 1, sentence 2)

So....................................there were no problems at the shut down BUT there were elbow issues twice the previous year that they felt the need to guard against.

Either way, the injury history and resume was there. Even if we take the GM's proactive protection assessment at 100% face value with no company spin, the bottom line is that Pineda was DL'd TWICE the previous year with issues that would seem to me to be a pretty important part of a young pitcher.

But again, Cashman saw nothing and had no worries because Pineda was totally "risk free."

This last sentence is all you need to read to realize that this poster has zero knowledge period. He is expecting a GM, to be capable of making medical decisions. Saur, I am sorry to say but making medical decisions while not being "certified" to do so is a crime in many states in this country.

The Yankee medical staff went over Pineda with a large number of tests prior to the deal being finalized and found NOTHING... NOT Brian Cashman, but team doctors.. guys whose job it is to make medical decisions. Guys who claim that what they saw in March when he hit the DL, was NOT there in January when the deal was consummated.

Now, assuming that the possibility exists that the problem with Pineda WAS pre-existing, that is NOT Brians fault, but the medical staff's fault. Though what I have heard, they have compared the MRI results on his shoulder and it is clear even to untrained eyes that there is something different between Jan. and Mar. So grow up and stop spouting crap that removes all doubt of your ignorance.

There is only one thing in baseball that is risk free... RETIREMENT.

Oh, and Montero may have been a great prospect, but just a bit of news... He has played 1 full MLB season in the majors... and did not do anything to demonstrate stardom..... I will admit, he showed he belonged, but average does not demonstrate stardom either.

[sauronthepower]

This last sentence is all you need to read to realize that this poster has zero knowledge period. He is expecting a GM, to be capable of making medical decisions. Saur, I am sorry to say but making medical decisions while not being "certified" to do so is a crime in many states in this country.

The Yankee medical staff went over Pineda with a large number of tests prior to the deal being finalized and found NOTHING... NOT Brian Cashman, but team doctors.. guys whose job it is to make medical decisions. Guys who claim that what they saw in March when he hit the DL, was NOT there in January when the deal was consummated.

Now, assuming that the possibility exists that the problem with Pineda WAS pre-existing, that is NOT Brians fault, but the medical staff's fault. Though what I have heard, they have compared the MRI results on his shoulder and it is clear even to untrained eyes that there is something different between Jan. and Mar. So grow up and stop spouting crap that removes all doubt of your ignorance.

There is only one thing in baseball that is risk free... RETIREMENT.

Oh, and Montero may have been a great prospect, but just a bit of news... He has played 1 full MLB season in the majors... and did not do anything to demonstrate stardom..... I will admit, he showed he belonged, but average does not demonstrate stardom either.

so the next time "Dr. Phoba" comes around lecturing on the protocols of Internet debate decorum, I'm going to open with this excerpt....."This last sentence is all you need to read to realize that this poster has zero knowledge period

In the department of clueless how about this. Cashman could've said NO. PERIOD.

Too much preexisting risk with double DL stints and premature shutdowns. And then, with the termity to call me stupid, based on your arguement, why don't we just trade Cano for Brandon Webb because, after all, it's "criminally negligent" to make medically informed decisions when not possessing a medical degree.

I mean, Brandon Webb has a hell of a talent ceiling and since we are now no longer allowed to judge acquisitions by any sort of medical conditions this looks phenomenal on paper.

:

My freaking word, is this the best we can do today?

[LeoYankee]

I'm currently laughing.