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  1. #76
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    If we trade Porcello we should look at Colorado they have a couple of middle infield prospects that are blocked. Trevor Story and Rosell Herrera both 20.

  2. #77
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    I actually don't mind trading with the Padres. I love Gregorson and he has some closing experience (9 saves last year). I would want their SS prospect Jace Peterson too though.

    I will say this, Porcello is due to win 14 games this year. He went 14-9 in his first year, 10-12 in his next, 14-9 again, and then 10-12 last year. He's almost a lock to go 14-9 again.

  3. #78
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    If we can trade Scherzer for a good offensive and defensive SS I would much rather keep Porcello. I think we can get more for Scherzer in a deal, Max will also cost us a lot more in a couple years, and with his inconsistency and possibility for injury, I believe Porcello has just as much value to the team. Neither guy goes deep in games at this point, but I think Porcello has the better chance to in the future, I have a feeling Scherzer ends up in somebodies bullpen in the next couple years, I would say it could be ours but Boras is his agent.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by sc8581 View Post
    If we can trade Scherzer for a good offensive and defensive SS I would much rather keep Porcello. I think we can get more for Scherzer in a deal, Max will also cost us a lot more in a couple years, and with his inconsistency and possibility for injury, I believe Porcello has just as much value to the team. Neither guy goes deep in games at this point, but I think Porcello has the better chance to in the future, I have a feeling Scherzer ends up in somebodies bullpen in the next couple years, I would say it could be ours but Boras is his agent.
    Not sure I've ever seen someone so worried about someone elses money...

    I'm still waiting for someone to explain Max's inconsistency...21 quality starts put him in the top 25 in MLB. As a team they went 21-11 when he was on the mound. No he's not Justin Verlander, but when he's on the mound we have a good shot at winning.

    Porcello on the other had had 13 quality starts and the Tigers went 16-15 when he was on the mound.

    How do you explain Porcello having "just as much value to the team"?

    You don't just move an arm like Scherzers' to the BP. For one he's gonna get a very nice contract and his team isn't going to move that much money to the BP for him to throw a 1/3 the innings as he would starting, 2nd he won't make near as much money as a reliever and he won't be willing to do so... Even Jake Peavy is still a SP

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by sc8581 View Post
    If we can trade Scherzer for a good offensive and defensive SS I would much rather keep Porcello. I think we can get more for Scherzer in a deal, Max will also cost us a lot more in a couple years, and with his inconsistency and possibility for injury, I believe Porcello has just as much value to the team. Neither guy goes deep in games at this point, but I think Porcello has the better chance to in the future, I have a feeling Scherzer ends up in somebodies bullpen in the next couple years, I would say it could be ours but Boras is his agent.
    No way they trade Scherzer right now. The only way they would do that is if they were in rebuilding mode, which they are clearly not. We only have minor holes to fill, so I don't see the need to create a larger hole (trading Scherzer) to fill those.

    Although Porcello still has upside at only 24, I can't agree that he is just as valuable. In the last three years, Scherzer's highest ERA and WHP (4.43/1.35 - other two years=3.50/1.25 and 3.74/1.27) are better than Porcello's best (4.59/1.389 - other numbers = 4.92/1.407, 4.75/1.531).

    Also, Scherzer fits the team better as he is a strikeout pitcher. His 231/60 K/BB split last year was incredible compared to Porcello's 107/44 split. Since we have a poor defense, I would take the extra 124 K's.

    Porcello has been more consisent, but also consistently bad. I would rather take Scherzer's flashes of brilliance mixed in with clunkers than the consistently average Porcello. Just my opinion.

  6. #81
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    I see what sc is saying though. We basically have 6 starters and likely to trade Porcello since he doesn't really fit. But with Scherzer being a Boras client, trading him in a package to land a top defensive SS would increase Porcello's value without having to risk losing Max to FA.

    Not sure whether I agree, but at least I see where he's coming from (unless I'm misinterpreting)

  7. #82
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    I think the advantage of trading Scherzer is also the increase in return. Not sure Porcello brings back a high end SS but I think Scherzer more likely does. I have a feeling his value is at its peak as a trade chip this off-season.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    I think the advantage of trading Scherzer is also the increase in return. Not sure Porcello brings back a high end SS but I think Scherzer more likely does. I have a feeling his value is at its peak as a trade chip this off-season.
    I agree with you 100% . I think many teams say the jury is still out with Porcello or don't have that much faith in him. Max on the other hand was a stud the last 3/4 of the season. He was as good as just about anybody. On his days to pitch it was just about a sure thing we would win.

    Porcello should bring us something for the future . But unless we add something with him I doubt we get anything that helps us that much now.
    Max gets us the piece we need . I'll bet there are a couple of pitching coaches chomping at the bit hoping to get Max.
    "Just because the path is well beaten. That doesn't mean it's the right way to go"

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    I think the advantage of trading Scherzer is also the increase in return. Not sure Porcello brings back a high end SS but I think Scherzer more likely does. I have a feeling his value is at its peak as a trade chip this off-season.
    It is at its peak this year, however we are a playoff team and you don't trade a front end starter unless you are rebuilding or need to shed payroll. We're doing neither.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by klane079 View Post
    It is at its peak this year, however we are a playoff team and you don't trade a front end starter unless you are rebuilding or need to shed payroll. We're doing neither.
    He is not a front end starter. He is too inconsistent and unable to work deep enough into games. And he is less valuable to the Tigers NOW than Andrus would be. If I'm DD, I'm pushing Texas for something like Max/NC/Peralta for Andrus/Olt/Perez.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by klane079 View Post
    It is at its peak this year, however we are a playoff team and you don't trade a front end starter unless you are rebuilding or need to shed payroll. We're doing neither.
    Exactly. Although Scherzer would give us a more significant return, he also creates a larger hole in our starters. I feel that we would be regretting getting rid of Scherzer more than people think.

    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    He is not a front end starter. He is too inconsistent and unable to work deep enough into games. And he is less valuable to the Tigers NOW than Andrus would be. If I'm DD, I'm pushing Texas for something like Max/NC/Peralta for Andrus/Olt/Perez.
    He is not as inconsistent as we fans believe. He can be difficult to watch as a fan, but his numbers are fairly consistent throughout the years with 2011 being the anomaly. His ERA over his three years in DET are 3.50, 4.43, and 3.74. His WHIP was 1.25, 1.35, 1.27. Considering 2 out of the three years are very close in both categories, I see 2011 as the outlier more than screaming complete inconsistency. His K/BB rate has only gotten better as they went 184/70, 174/56, 231/60. He also averaged close to 6 innings per start and was second on the team in that category.

    I guess my thought is since we don't absolutely NEED an upgrade at SS to win this year, trading Scherzer would be a huge mistake. Our rotation without Scherzer would take a MONSTEROUS hit. Much moreso than the damage our infield defense will cause as is. Considering you replace Scherzer's ERA with a full point more of ERA, .3 more Whip, 100 less K's, the same amount of BB's and LESS innings in Porcello, I think he is more valuable than you think.

    Scherzer is going anywhere unless they need to shed money or they are rebuilding. He has more value ON the team this year than in a trade to be honest. If we bomb this year and they decide to shed salary than I could possibly see it, but it won't happen this season and it shouldn't. He may be maddening to watch sometimes, but he is way more valuable to this team than people give him credit for.
    Last edited by Lionsforlife; 12-29-2012 at 11:28 PM.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by klane079 View Post
    It is at its peak this year, however we are a playoff team and you don't trade a front end starter unless you are rebuilding or need to shed payroll. We're doing neither.
    3.74 ERA and he doesn't go deep in games, please tell me how he is a front-end starter?

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by sc8581 View Post
    3.74 ERA and he doesn't go deep in games, please tell me how he is a front-end starter?
    For starters anyone who understands baseball doesn't judge a pitcher by his ERA. But since you threw it out there...his 1st start against Boston inflates that number, take off those 7 ERs in 2.2 IP he had a 3.45 ERA.

    How many innings does Max need to go? Thats what we have a BP for. He had 20 quality starts in 2012, and we won 21 games when he was on the mound.

    • CC had 19 QS
    • Shields, Greinke had 20
    • Weaver, CJ Wilson, King Felix, Cain, and Cliff Lee all had 21


    Does it really make a difference if these guys make quality starts and pitch 1 or 2 more innings than Scherzer? He still went 6+ while allowing 3 or less runs right up there with some of the best pitchers in baseball....

    I'm still waiting on that list of 30-40 players to give us 30 HRs and 100 RBIs at half the price of Prince.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by klane079 View Post
    For starters anyone who understands baseball doesn't judge a pitcher by his ERA. But since you threw it out there...his 1st start against Boston inflates that number, take off those 7 ERs in 2.2 IP he had a 3.45 ERA.

    How many innings does Max need to go? Thats what we have a BP for. He had 20 quality starts in 2012, and we won 21 games when he was on the mound.

    • CC had 19 QS
    • Shields, Greinke had 20
    • Weaver, CJ Wilson, King Felix, Cain, and Cliff Lee all had 21


    Does it really make a difference if these guys make quality starts and pitch 1 or 2 more innings than Scherzer? He still went 6+ while allowing 3 or less runs right up there with some of the best pitchers in baseball....

    I'm still waiting on that list of 30-40 players to give us 30 HRs and 100 RBIs at half the price of Prince.
    Hell yes it does, especially when you have a questionable bullpen like ours.

    He only averaged 5.8 IP per outing, that's terrible, even Porcello averaged 5.7 and we know thta would have been much better if not for our horrible defense.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by sc8581 View Post
    Hell yes it does, especially when you have a questionable bullpen like ours.

    He only averaged 5.8 IP per outing, that's terrible, even Porcello averaged 5.7 and we know thta would have been much better if not for our horrible defense.
    I c...disreguard every other statistic...doesnt matter how many wins quality starts, wins we had with him pitching or stike outs or the fact that he was top 20 in WAR for SPers...he didn't pitch deep in games. Lets compare him to Porcello

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