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  1. #196
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    LOL !!!! Now thats funny. I don't care who you are!!!!
    "Just because the path is well beaten. That doesn't mean it's the right way to go"

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by sc8581 View Post
    Top of the rotation guys go deep in games, a #3 tends to be a guy that puts up good numbers but doesn't eat innings, a #4 puts up inconsistent numbers and innings. To me, Scherzer is at best a #3, and that's assuming he figures out a way to be more consistent.

    Btw, I hope all of you that don't consider IP/start an important stat realize that is the biggest reason Jack Morris might get into the HOF, even with a 3.9 career ERA in an offensively challenged era.
    Morris has been on the verge of getting in the hall based on the fact that he is the winningest pitcher in the '80s. He also has four WS rings from 3 different teams. His win total is more of the reason for him getting in than innings per start.

    I will admit, that his innings per start does help him as he was a work horse. But so was a lot of pitchers in those days as they didn't have the speciality relievers that they do now. The point is that several "innings eaters" are just average pitchers that can go deep into games, but give up 4-5 runs every time. I would rather have a pitcher who has the potential to dominate a game (which Scherzer has shown, albeit mostly in the second half of the season) over 5-6 innings than a guy going 6-7 and giving up 4-6 runs. That's my biggest problem with that stat. Innings per start does not mean you are a good pitcher if your manager keeps you in the game too long.

    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    I think the argument (whether it valid or not) is that the drop off from Scherzer to Porcello is smaller than what trading Scherzer could bring back to improve the team over what Porcello could bring back.

    Also in considering this opinion I think one would have to take into account the likelihood of the two pitchers improving going forward and the ability to keep the two pitchers going forward.

    I don't think either opinion is crazy and mostly hinges on whether you think Scherzer is a sell high while Porcello would be a sell low or not.
    I think everyone agrees that Scherzer would bring more back in trade. The disagreement is really that you would gain more by doing so. I think the drop off between Scherzer and Porcello is much greater than people realize. I also fear that if we don't move Porcello now, his trade value is only going to decrease and we may be stuck with him.I just don't see Porcello improving in Detroit. I think he has a great chance to revitalize his career elsewhere, but I fear he will never improve here.

  3. #198
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    that last part. Porcello will not improve here in detroit. Completely agree

  4. #199
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    Porcello needs to go to an NL team to be successful. You won't see him improving on the Tigers at all.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Algmuskrats View Post
    Porcello needs to go to an NL team to be successful. You won't see him improving on the Tigers at all.
    your absolutely right about him never going to improve here. ive always thought that he belonged in the NL since day 1. we should kick the tires on a Dee Gordon for Peralta n Porcello deal? wouldnt hurt

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by detroitfans#1 View Post
    your absolutely right about him never going to improve here. ive always thought that he belonged in the NL since day 1. we should kick the tires on a Dee Gordon for Peralta n Porcello deal? wouldnt hurt
    I like Dee Gordon but Peralta and Porcello have no place on their roster they are trying to or at least talking about moving starting pitching as is and peralta I don't see anywhere for him on that roster either

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by sc8581 View Post
    King Felix has had 5 straight seasons of over 200 innings and an ERA under 3.5, Scherzer has never pitched 200 innings or had an ERA under 3.5.
    correct...Not sure what you point is here? as I said IP is a big reason Max isn't an ACE he's a #2. Never said he was as good...

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by klane079 View Post
    correct...Not sure what you point is here? as I said IP is a big reason Max isn't an ACE he's a #2. Never said he was as good...
    So IP is important but IP/start isn't?

  9. #204
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    Are you guys secretly brothers?

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dekker View Post
    that last part. Porcello will not improve here in detroit. Completely agree
    Porcello while the #5 SP on our roster is an important piece...176 IP last season...averages 12 wins a season. I don't really care if he improves he averages 12 wins and eats innings. He is not a bad pitcher. He is simply not a strikeout pitcher like everyone else we have in our rotation.

    Don't get me wrong...I understand why we would trade him. I don't even oppose trading him. I personally think that he has better value at the deadline and I think that for a guy like Porcello you better get quality in return (ahoda and motown web said so...so I believe them).

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by sc8581 View Post
    So IP is important but IP/start isn't?
    You obviously don't like Max as much as I do. I'm done with your pissing match and poor methods of evaluation.

    He won't be traded this season as you suggest, moving on.....

  12. #207
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    well since ahoda technically owns this website, I better agree with him. Like I said, Porcello isn't going to improve here, and I've been on the record saying that if porcello is our worst pitcher, that is a good problem to have because porcello does make a serviceable #5. I'll assume you're one of those guys who wants Smyly to sit in the bullpen for a year or two or until whenever we get rid of porcello right? I don't disagree per se, but I feel porcello should be dealt now. His stock isn't high, but it can get a hell of a lot lower. And if we hang on to him, and he starts to repeat what he has done most of his career, his stock will only take a hit. I would rather Drew take the #5 job as I feel he is the better pitcher anyways

    So sure, you can go in with the mindset that we have to get a nice haul for porcello, or we can get a decent to nice haul now and not risk losing value. You're supposed to sell high but you sure as hell aren't supposed to sell low.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dekker View Post
    well since ahoda technically owns this website, I better agree with him. Like I said, Porcello isn't going to improve here, and I've been on the record saying that if porcello is our worst pitcher, that is a good problem to have because porcello does make a serviceable #5. I'll assume you're one of those guys who wants Smyly to sit in the bullpen for a year or two or until whenever we get rid of porcello right? I don't disagree per se, but I feel porcello should be dealt now. His stock isn't high, but it can get a hell of a lot lower. And if we hang on to him, and he starts to repeat what he has done most of his career, his stock will only take a hit. I would rather Drew take the #5 job as I feel he is the better pitcher anyways

    So sure, you can go in with the mindset that we have to get a nice haul for porcello, or we can get a decent to nice haul now and not risk losing value. You're supposed to sell high but you sure as hell aren't supposed to sell low.
    If we can get Hardy or someone similar for Porcello i'm all for it, but i'm not convinced he can't succeed here like some.

  14. #209
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    I'm not convinced even if he could succeed here, which he could do in the right circumstances, that he could exceed as well as Drew Smyly

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by sc8581 View Post
    If we can get Hardy or someone similar for Porcello i'm all for it, but i'm not convinced he can't succeed here like some.
    Hardy for Porcello that's fine. But Hardy for Porcello and Peralta makes no sense to me. Hardy is a defensive upgrade over Peralta but is he an upgrade equivalent to the talents of Porcello. IMO it's not a great trade I like Hardy but not for the price. Porcello and Peralta mediocre players but with some value currently if we are to make a move we need to maximize the value not combine the two for a player who is 30 coming off his best season of his career. you know the buy low sell high thing lets not be the one buying the player on the high side.

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