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  1. #181
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    No Way!

    Quote Originally Posted by JackB View Post
    Our government is corrupt????
    I read on the internet that the government isn't allowed to be corrupt and the internet doesn't lie.
    The Man, The Myth, The legend? Oh, well, I am theoldgoalie!!!

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by sc8581 View Post
    Just because he won an MVP doesn't mean he's a once in a generation pitcher. Clemens might be the greatest pitcher of all-time, but I wouldn't even call him a once in a generation pitcher, because how much better was he than Maddux, Randy Johnson, or Pedro? Do you think Verlander is some god compared to Halladay, Lee, Felix, Price, Weaver, etc... I could make an argument that some of these guys are better, and it wouldn't be that difficult.
    Dude.....Botoom line, Clemens is definately a once in a generation pitcher. Verlander has outperformed every single one of those pitchers you mentioned and he will continue to do so for a long time. THE MAN IS A FLAT OUT FREAK!

    You completely lost me when you tried to say that Clemens was not a "once ina generation pitcher" I don't even thik Verlander will come close to Clemens numbers because Clemens did it for 20 friggin' years!
    The Man, The Myth, The legend? Oh, well, I am theoldgoalie!!!

  3. #183
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    And Clemens has what SEVEN Cy Young awards ?
    "Just because the path is well beaten. That doesn't mean it's the right way to go"

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoldgoalie View Post
    Dude.....Botoom line, Clemens is definately a once in a generation pitcher. Verlander has outperformed every single one of those pitchers you mentioned and he will continue to do so for a long time. THE MAN IS A FLAT OUT FREAK!

    You completely lost me when you tried to say that Clemens was not a "once ina generation pitcher" I don't even thik Verlander will come close to Clemens numbers because Clemens did it for 20 friggin' years!
    He's done so for 2 years and in the worst division in baseball.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by klane079 View Post
    Anyone who knows baseball doesn't judge a pitcher solely from ERA & IP/game.

    He struggled in 2011 I'll give you that...2012 after April he had a 3.375 ERA and we went 19-8 when he was on the mound.

    You still aren't comprehending my original question. How does Max have 20 QSs...the same amount as the "ACEs" I listed? Are they all inconstant as well?
    A quality start is garbage, 6 innings is mediocre and 3 runs in those 6 innings is a 4.5 ERA, QS=garbage stat.

  6. #186
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    I don't even know what you guys are arguing about any more lol

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by sc8581 View Post
    A quality start is garbage, 6 innings is mediocre and 3 runs in those 6 innings is a 4.5 ERA, QS=garbage stat.
    from they guy using IP/Game

    I'm done

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by klane079 View Post
    from they guy using IP/Game

    I'm done
    Top of the rotation guys go deep in games, a #3 tends to be a guy that puts up good numbers but doesn't eat innings, a #4 puts up inconsistent numbers and innings. To me, Scherzer is at best a #3, and that's assuming he figures out a way to be more consistent.

    Btw, I hope all of you that don't consider IP/start an important stat realize that is the biggest reason Jack Morris might get into the HOF, even with a 3.9 career ERA in an offensively challenged era.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoldgoalie View Post
    Ahoda, you crack me up man! I have been trying and trying to make sense out of the argument he is putting up and all I see is that Scherzer has gotten better and better since he came to Detroit (less 2011) and Porcello hasn't necessarily got worse, he just hasn't gotten better.

    Bottom line.....Scherzer is a better pitcher than Porcello and that means he could bring more in a trade..... But why??? Trading Scherzer is going to make us worse....Keeping Porcello won't make us better. I could understand if we had someone in the wings waiting for an opportunity to come up, but we don't. Crosby is probably our best bet at having a prospect come up and start for us and he is a far stretch from even having a chance at being good.

    Personally, I would like to see Porcello remain our number 5 starter and move Smyly to the bullpen for a season or two to do long relief. If one of the starters goes down.... Boom! Smyly comes in. If we are that desperate for a short stop, then we need to look at trading Garcia, Dirks, or Castellanos for that SS because nothing else we have is going to bring us one. We have some young guys that could come up in a season or two and show us something, I say we wait and go with what we have in 2013.
    I think the argument (whether it valid or not) is that the drop off from Scherzer to Porcello is smaller than what trading Scherzer could bring back to improve the team over what Porcello could bring back.

    Also in considering this opinion I think one would have to take into account the likelihood of the two pitchers improving going forward and the ability to keep the two pitchers going forward.

    I don't think either opinion is crazy and mostly hinges on whether you think Scherzer is a sell high while Porcello would be a sell low or not.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by sc8581 View Post
    Top of the rotation guys go deep in games, a #3 tends to be a guy that puts up good numbers but doesn't eat innings, a #4 puts up inconsistent numbers and innings. To me, Scherzer is at best a #3, and that's assuming he figures out a way to be more consistent.

    Btw, I hope all of you that don't consider IP/start an important stat realize that is the biggest reason Jack Morris might get into the HOF, even with a 3.9 career ERA in an offensively challenged era.
    I disagree, your opinion means nothing to me and I'm obviously not going to change it.

    Quality starts aren't counted for ***** and giggles. Doesn't matter how deep a pitcher goes if he doesn't give his team a chance to win.

    A guy like King Felix pitches the same amount of QSs, yet he isn't "inconsistent" EVERY other start he either threw less than 5 innings...or allowed 4 or more runs. He is an ACE IMO because of his quality starts and he pitches deeper in games. Max isn't because he doesn't pitch as deep.
    Last edited by klane079; 01-10-2013 at 08:28 PM.

  11. #191
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    Can we close this? I think if one of them said the sky was blue, the other would counter and say its gray

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by klane079 View Post
    I disagree, your opinion means nothing to me and I'm obviously not going to change it.

    Quality starts aren't counted for ***** and giggles. Doesn't matter how deep a pitcher goes if he doesn't give his team a chance to win.

    A guy like King Felix pitches the same amount of QSs, yet he isn't "inconsistent" EVERY other start he either threw less than 5 innings...or allowed 4 or more runs. He is an ACE IMO because of his quality starts and he pitches deeper in games. Max isn't because he doesn't pitch as deep.
    King Felix has had 5 straight seasons of over 200 innings and an ERA under 3.5, Scherzer has never pitched 200 innings or had an ERA under 3.5.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackB View Post
    And Clemens has what SEVEN Cy Young awards ?
    But none in the past few years so he is just average and he didn't pitch enough innings per start so he isn't elite.
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  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoldgoalie View Post
    Ahoda, you crack me up man! I have been trying and trying to make sense out of the argument he is putting up and all I see is that Scherzer has gotten better and better since he came to Detroit (less 2011) and Porcello hasn't necessarily got worse, he just hasn't gotten better.

    Bottom line.....Scherzer is a better pitcher than Porcello and that means he could bring more in a trade..... But why??? Trading Scherzer is going to make us worse....Keeping Porcello won't make us better. I could understand if we had someone in the wings waiting for an opportunity to come up, but we don't. Crosby is probably our best bet at having a prospect come up and start for us and he is a far stretch from even having a chance at being good.

    Personally, I would like to see Porcello remain our number 5 starter and move Smyly to the bullpen for a season or two to do long relief. If one of the starters goes down.... Boom! Smyly comes in. If we are that desperate for a short stop, then we need to look at trading Garcia, Dirks, or Castellanos for that SS because nothing else we have is going to bring us one. We have some young guys that could come up in a season or two and show us something, I say we wait and go with what we have in 2013.
    You can't teach stupid to someone who's already stupid.
    Last edited by ahoda; 01-11-2013 at 06:58 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
    Me and MTM


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    I suck the donkey dick!!!........... HAHAHAHAHA!!

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    I think the argument (whether it valid or not) is that the drop off from Scherzer to Porcello is smaller than what trading Scherzer could bring back to improve the team over what Porcello could bring back.

    Also in considering this opinion I think one would have to take into account the likelihood of the two pitchers improving going forward and the ability to keep the two pitchers going forward.

    I don't think either opinion is crazy and mostly hinges on whether you think Scherzer is a sell high while Porcello would be a sell low or not.

    I can get on board with that, but it's how you derive to this outcome. By using arbitrary stats like IP, you're making an opinion that is so off base that it's insane. Might as well just use Wins/Losses too while you're at it. Or how about the number of strikes pitched when the count is 1-0 on nights when it's partly cloudy and the time is exactly 7:47:32 and the pitcher grabbed his junk right before he pitched.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
    Me and MTM


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