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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    I never said anything but taking it on a case by case basis.
    Are there 3 cases within the past 5 years in which you think would illustrate your point rather well then?

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by tripleplay2007 View Post
    I grew up with guys like Chipper Jones, Craig Biggio, Todd Helton, all sticking with they're teams for the long haul. That's the way it should be in my book.

    What is wrong with this generation of players? Are you guys a fan of hopping ships from one rival to another like these guys do today? Guys leaving their teams for more money.

    Examples of guys leaving for rivals:

    Josh Hamilton to the Angels from the Rangers
    Johnny Damon to the Yankees from the Redsox
    CJ Wilson to the Angels from the Rangers

    Example of franchise players leaving for better money:

    Albert Pujols to the Angels from the Cardinals

    It seems like the guys that we once cheered and loved always take the money over loyalty these days.

    Do you guys have a problem with this or is it just me? Nothing's stranger then seeing your franchise guy leave town for more money.
    1. I heard these complaints when Chipper Jones was a prospect. Not a generational thing.

    2. There is little reason for player to show loyalty to teams that, thanks to the draft and CBA, essentially owned them and had total control over their careers.

    3. Why does no one ever complain about teams that turn their back on players?

    4. Pro athletes are competitive. If they weren't they wouldn't succeed at their jobs. They want to win. Losing night after night, year after year, isn't fun, no matter the money. Every organization goes through highs and lows, but some seem incapable or unwilling to do what they need to do to win. Why would a player want to stay with that team?

    5. The "stick with the team that gave them an opportunity" argument is sketchy at best. Most players are with a team because they were drafted by them. If they weren't, they were not going to go work at Home Depot. They would have been taken with the next draft pick, and played for a different team. Sure there are some exceptions, but few of them are superstar players.
    Last edited by misterd; 01-04-2013 at 11:57 PM.

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post

    Are there 3 cases within the past 5 years in which you think would illustrate your point rather well then?
    I don't time nor the patience to look this up. If you really want my opinion on this, give me ton of examples with all the facts and I'll give you my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    Parity is about equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by misterd View Post

    3. Why does no one ever complain about teams that turn their back on players? .
    I have. It just appears more towards the player lately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    Parity is about equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by floater View Post


    what has texas had to deal with though? his infamous drug issues were long before his texas days. by the time he got there he had already had a solid season with CIN and his main issue was health, not drugs.
    Just like an addict is always in recovery, someone involved with them is always dealing. Think how TX had someone with him 24/7 and yet he still fell off the wagon. Though may seem minor, they used non alcohol Champaign when celebrating.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    Parity is about equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    I don't time nor the patience to look this up. If you really want my opinion on this, give me ton of examples with all the facts and I'll give you my opinion.
    That is not how this works.

    He asked you for literally only 3 examples to support your 'case by case' argument, and instead of providing that, you ask for a TON of examples to support his opinion?


    If you aren't going to seriously try to discuss this, why should anyone else?

    What mtf asked for was more than reasonable.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    That is not how this works.

    He asked you for literally only 3 examples to support your 'case by case' argument, and instead of providing that, you ask for a TON of examples to support his opinion?


    If you aren't going to seriously try to discuss this, why should anyone else?

    What mtf asked for was more than reasonable.
    Stop doing the pile when I pointed out you were wrong. Of course you never admit when you are.

    Post #174 onward if you need an example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    Parity is about equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Fully agree with your point regarding Jeffy, but I'm still not really sure what your overall stance is on this issue. Kinda seems like you've been contradicting yourself here and there.
    I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it. Thanks for acknowledging it.

    Regarding the main subject at hand, what I am saying is I take each on a case by case basis. There are times I believe either the teams or the players are not being loyal. Both are probably looking at it as strictly business, unfortunately they both are forgetting it is the fans that pay their bills. It just may appear here I'm siding with one side, but that is probably because that particular side is in the minority in this conversation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    Parity is about equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    I think the one post of yours that I quoted earlier in this thread just confused me. Seems like you are on the side of the fans if anyone here....which is fine. However, the average person is too content/brain-dead to group together with a bunch of other fans and boycott a particular team or something. So yes, the fans do pay the bills/turned MLB in to the cash cow that it is, but I don't see any scenario where this is going to be somehow reversed. Sure it's possible, the odds are just very, very small (barring a complete collapse of the U.S. economy).
    I've always been accused of being an idealist.

    Whether realistically possible or not, doesn't change the fact of what I think is right or wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    Parity is about equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    Just like an addict is always in recovery, someone involved with them is always dealing. Think how TX had someone with him 24/7 and yet he still fell off the wagon. Though may seem minor, they used non alcohol Champaign when celebrating.

    still failing to see what was so special about the accommodations texas made that every single other team wouldn't have also done in the blink of an eye for a player that was performing like hamilton and was leading to the type of team success texas was having.

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by floater View Post
    still failing to see what was so special about the accommodations texas made that every single other team wouldn't have also done in the blink of an eye for a player that was performing like hamilton and was leading to the type of team success texas was having.
    I guess you will have to ask the Reds that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    Parity is about equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    I don't think you've yet answered why you feel upset at the athlete if he chooses to play elsewhere when he becomes a free agent instead of directing that meaningless anger at the organization he left who didn't make a better offer.
    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    I never said anything but taking it on a case by case basis.
    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    Are there 3 cases within the past 5 years in which you think would illustrate your point rather well then?
    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    I don't time nor the patience to look this up. If you really want my opinion on this, give me ton of examples with all the facts and I'll give you my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    That is not how this works.

    He asked you for literally only 3 examples to support your 'case by case' argument, and instead of providing that, you ask for a TON of examples to support his opinion?

    If you aren't going to seriously try to discuss this, why should anyone else?

    What mtf asked for was more than reasonable.
    I've just posted the chain of events so that both sides of the argument are clear. I'll paraphrase it below and you can tell me where I went wrong here.

    ---

    mtf:
    Why do you get mad at players for being greedy rather than owners for being greedy and not paying the player what the market dictates?

    thefeckcampaign:
    It depends on the case.

    mtf:
    Please explain in what case your argument is valid. Only 3 will suffice and you can use any of the last 5 years of free agent classes to make your point. Just name 3 players.

    thefeckcampaign:
    I'm not inclined to support my argument. Why don't you do it for me?

    Jeffy25:
    That's not how these discussions work. You said your argument is limited to certain cases but you do not want to list any?

    ---

    All I asked was for you to name the players. I hadn't even ask you to back up your cases with justifications and you said you don't have the time or patience to name three players?

    Isn't that just a concession that you are arguing for a completely illogical position that actually has no merit at all if you can't even name 3 players in 5 years that fits your case?

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    I've just posted the chain of events so that both sides of the argument are clear. I'll paraphrase it below and you can tell me where I went wrong here.

    ---

    mtf:
    Why do you get mad at players for being greedy rather than owners for being greedy and not paying the player what the market dictates?

    thefeckcampaign:
    It depends on the case.

    mtf:
    Please explain in what case your argument is valid. Only 3 will suffice and you can use any of the last 5 years of free agent classes to make your point. Just name 3 players.

    thefeckcampaign:
    I'm not inclined to support my argument. Why don't you do it for me?

    Jeffy25:
    That's not how these discussions work. You said your argument is limited to certain cases but you do not want to list any?

    ---

    All I asked was for you to name the players. I hadn't even ask you to back up your cases with justifications and you said you don't have the time or patience to name three players?

    Isn't that just a concession that you are arguing for a completely illogical position that actually has no merit at all if you can't even name 3 players in 5 years that fits your case?
    I am with you mtf... If you are going to make an argument you need to support. Dont waste your time if he is not willing to do the same.

  14. #209
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    Loyalty in the MLB

    You've convinced me. I'll just follow the herd from now on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    Parity is about equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

  15. #210
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    To us, as fans, its a sport for the most part. To the players it's their livelihood. I have no problem whatsoever if a player choses a job that offers him more money, I would do the same thing.

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