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  1. #76
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    What has cost the Phils the last 2 post seasons (that they were in)? Averaging 2 runs a game vs both St Louis and San Fran. My point is there has to come a point were instead of always going after the best pitchers you need to go after the best bat.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philsforever View Post
    What has cost the Phils the last 2 post seasons (that they were in)? Averaging 2 runs a game vs both St Louis and San Fran. My point is there has to come a point were instead of always going after the best pitchers you need to go after the best bat.
    And again, I think it's been said here plenty of times that the main reason we couldn't score runs in those series was that our big bats all went cold at the same time. Nobody hit in those series. If Utley, Howard, etc. played even average in those games, we would have won.

    Now, that excuse doesn't overcome your point in two ways. First, Utley and Howard have probably declined to the point that we do actually need another power bat in the lineup. Second, if we had had another power bat in the lineup then, maybe we would have scored a few more runs.

    Ultimately, as far as investing in a bigger bat goes, I get the frustration. But at the same time, I can't ask for Ruben to go and overpay like crazy for guys. When you look at the money he's shelled out to free agent pitchers, the only top-tier guys he's invested in are Lee and Papelbon. Lee is a special situation both because we traded him away to begin with and because it was a last-second, under-the-radar kind of move, which is a big reason why we were able to snag him at around market value (it also helped that he really liked it here). Papelbon was an overpay, plain and simple.

    My point is that really, Ruben has only once gone after a pitcher with the aggressiveness necessary to land one on the open market (the other time was a combination of stealth and a guy who was willing to take less to be here). And when he got Paps, he signed him to a deal that we all think was excessive. The only way he'd land a Hamilton on the open market would have been to offer him an LAA-type deal. And I think most of us would have agreed that that would have been a bad idea.

    As far as trades go, we just plain don't have the bullets to land the kind of player you want.

    So while I would like a major offensive upgrade, I don't think it's entirely fair to say that Ruben refuses to invest in offensive upgrades while he's more than willing to spend freely on pitching. When you look at what's out there and what he would actually have to pay to get it done, I don't think that position holds a lot of water.

    Learning to love the bomb since 2009

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  3. #78
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    Very valid points, however we all agree that paps was an overpay but at the end of the day when he saves the game we are happy we have him.

    I feel the same would have been said with Hamilton. Everyone would have been complaining about his contract, but when he hit 40hr we would have been happy.

    There is a reason the Angels went from 15-1 odds at winning the World Series to 7-2 after signing Hamilton. Bad contract or not he gives them a better chance at winning. Same would have been said here

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philsforever View Post
    Amaro once again proves my point. 6mil a year for a setup guy and a total of 7.5mil on 3b, LF,CF,RF.
    Why are you posting this is every single thread? Anyway..

    Yeah it may seem like he spent less on position players, however Revere is young which is why he doesn't cost anything, and Young had most of his contract paid for by the other team. He also hasn't filled LF/RF yet, so who knows what will happen there. If you would rather Hamilton or Youkilis and their big contracts, that's ridiculous. Sure, Hamilton would have been great..but only for about 2 years. The Angels are going to regret that deal in the last few years. Also, Youk should not be making 12 million dollars. I'll take Young at half the price. We already have so much money tied up to other players, that we don't need anymore big, long-term contracts right now.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philsforever View Post
    Very valid points, however we all agree that paps was an overpay but at the end of the day when he saves the game we are happy we have him.

    I feel the same would have been said with Hamilton. Everyone would have been complaining about his contract, but when he hit 40hr we would have been happy.

    There is a reason the Angels went from 15-1 odds at winning the World Series to 7-2 after signing Hamilton. Bad contract or not he gives them a better chance at winning. Same would have been said here
    I would have loved Hamilton on this team. For 3 years. Then it would have gotten pretty ugly. It comes down to a philosophical difference. Go all in for one year and leave yourself in a lot of trouble immediately afterward, or try to remain competitive for as long as possible. Signing Hamilton to that contract would have been the former. Unfortunately, being the best team on paper seldom equates to World Series Championships. 2010 looked really good. Didn't get us much. The Giants and Cards have not been the team to beat on paper. They get the production when it counts. Is that easier to do with better players? Yes, but 2010 and 2011 tell us that it's not just the names but what they actually do. I'd rather make the smart moves that benefit us for the next five years instead of the next 2, even if the immediate payoff isn't as great. That might just need to be a point on which we agree to disagree, though.

    Learning to love the bomb since 2009

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  6. #81
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    anaheim will awful in 3-4 with the two of those monster contracts...they are literally going for broke
    2011 PSD Phillies Forum HOF Inductee


    Harry, I grew up with the phillies and learned the game by your voice. You will always be missed but never forgotten. Though you are no longer with us, you'll never be "outta here" in our hearts!

  7. #82
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    Maybe they won't be able to afford to keep Mike Trout and he'll want to come home

    Learning to love the bomb since 2009

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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthian View Post
    Lets also be realistic, Beltre was no sure thing either. He had the one Big year in LA but was nothing special. He was a risk, Polanco was a sure thing. Ruben could have also been a genius if Beltre wasn't as good, and maybe he wouldn't have rebounded here, so questioning that point is null in my opinion.

    Philly fans REALLY love the Hindsight bias.
    No hindsight here. I was all about adding Beltre at the time. I believed that leaving Safeco (which is death to RH power) for CBP would help his offensive numbers rebound, and even if not, his glove alone made him worth signing.

    Rhetorically speaking, it would have freed up Werth to hit leadoff since Beltre would have assumed the role of RH power bat. It never would've happened because of Charlie, but that would've been so sexy.

  9. #84
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    Ruckus, you might have been all about it, but conditions at the time strongly favored a multi-year contract with somebody. There's no way the Phillies could have paid the rate Beltre was looking for - that's why he ended up on a 1 year deal in the first place.
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  10. #85
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    Yeah, I couldn't remember if the budget at the time would have allowed for them to sign him. And I know the market for the next winter was weak at 3B. Still felt it was a risk worth taking.

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