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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyfan1 View Post
    completely agree... You really think you'd be happy with Dunn having the 2 seasons he had in Chicago, here? Howard get his criticisms, but if a FA came to Philly and .154 then .204...and was the guy who replaced Howard, you really think that would be ok? Then you think we would still be able to trade him? Entitled to your opinion, but c'mon man
    Use Howards 2 years and Dunns last 2 years and their contracts and tell me who would be harder to trade? Yes some AL team would take dunn and his 40 plus homers to play DH in a heart beat at what he has remaining on his contract over what Howard has remaining.

    Dunn Makes 30 mill over the next 2 years...15/15

    Howards contract

    2013-20 mill
    2014-25 mill
    2015-25 mill
    2016-25 mill
    2017-23 mill with a 10 mill buyout

    Also Lol to whoever said he had 3 years left.
    Last edited by More-Than-Most; 12-13-2012 at 11:33 PM.

    What was meant for me will be Mine once again... THE CHAMP OF CHAMPS IS BACK

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most:24720942
    Quote Originally Posted by Reptar View Post
    Us not signing Werth has nothing to do with Howard. There were just rumors we offered Hamilton a contract. I'm sure if we had the prospects we would absolutely take on Justin Uptons contract with no problem. Enough with your Billy Bean bs.
    Um do you follow baseball? Do you realize how amazing uptons contract is? Of course we can afford Upton but we do not have the prospects. We could afford 2 or 3 of him because of the player he is and the contract he has.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...ptonju01.shtml

    6 years 50 mill

    He has 3 years left until becoming a free agent....9/14/14.... For what he does and his upside/age its a steal

    We will not go over the luxury tax...have we yet? We always get close and make sure we stay under it....again LOGIC
    You're right. I thought he was making a little bit more than that. Like 12/16/16.

    Point is we were always going to try and resign Howard. 100 out of 100 times. No brainer. We happened to overpay him. But the 10 mil or so a year that we are overpaying him has not affected us negatively to this point.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Use Howards 2 years and Dunns last 2 years and their contracts and tell me who would be harder to trade? Yes some AL team would take dunn and his 40 plus homers to play DH in a heart beat at what he has remaining on his contract over what Howard has remaining.

    Dunn Makes 30 mill over the next 2 years...15/15

    Howards contract

    2013-20 mill
    2014-25 mill
    2015-25 mill
    2016-25 mill
    2017-23 mill with a 10 mill buyout

    Also Lol to whoever said he had 3 years left.
    I apologize starting a discussion with you because all you do is make the same exact points and state them in slightly different ways...not only have I stated a few reasons to counter what you are saying...other people have too...and you just keep coming back with the numbers of the contract...and you still think, even though the guy hit as poorly as he hit, he still would be easy to trade...even if that was possible you really think we wouldnt be paying almost all that contract? It is nice as phils fan that we can dream a little...but you seem to be living in a fantasy land if you think that all of those moves were possible...everything would have to work down to a T.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyfan1 View Post
    I apologize starting a discussion with you because all you do is make the same exact points and state them in slightly different ways...not only have I stated a few reasons to counter what you are saying...other people have too...and you just keep coming back with the numbers of the contract...and you still think, even though the guy hit as poorly as he hit, he still would be easy to trade...even if that was possible you really think we wouldnt be paying almost all that contract? It is nice as phils fan that we can dream a little...but you seem to be living in a fantasy land if you think that all of those moves were possible...everything would have to work down to a T.
    Its nice to see you just give your points about Howard but do not follow the posts of this thread when giving your Opinion.... I am saying what I am saying because of the posts before... I then show you why it would be easy to trade dunn over Howard after you asking me do I really think it would be easy to trade him and you come back with this when I toss facts at you... Also I make the same point in different ways to help back my main point or add weight to it...Its called discussing and backing your opinion.

    Note- Vernon wells was traded for as were others with much worse contracts then Dunn.....Dunn hit 40 plus home runs last year and that is value to american league teams for some reason.... How is he not easy to trade when you factor in how much is left on his contract? Yes Dunn would be easy to trade without eating the entire contract in the american league as long as he was healthy....You wouldnt get much back though
    Last edited by More-Than-Most; 12-13-2012 at 11:57 PM.

    What was meant for me will be Mine once again... THE CHAMP OF CHAMPS IS BACK

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Its nice to see you just give your points about Howard but do not follow the posts of this thread when giving your Opinion.... I am saying what I am saying because of the posts before... I then show you why it would be easy to trade dunn over Howard after you asking me do I really think it would be easy to trade him and you come back with this when I toss facts at you... Also I make the same point in different ways to help back my main point or add weight to it...Its called discussing and backing your opinion.

    Note- Vernon wells was traded for as were others with much worse contracts then Dunn.....Dunn hit 40 plus home runs last year and that is value to american league teams for some reason.... How is he not easy to trade when you factor in how much is left on his contract? Yes Dunn would be easy to trade without eating the entire contract in the american league as long as he was healthy....You wouldnt get much back though

    Thats your opinion that he would be easy to trade without eating most of the contract, and I simply, completely disagree...you can throw out the name Vernon Wells, even though he was coming off a season where he hit like .270 and had around 30 homers, and prob close to 80-90 rbis...i know Dunn had the 40 hrs...but the .204 makes him difficult to trade...again Wells is just one name, I can go through a list and tell you many guys that were never traded my man

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyfan1 View Post
    Thats your opinion that he would be easy to trade without eating most of the contract, and I simply, completely disagree...you can throw out the name Vernon Wells, even though he was coming off a season where he hit like .270 and had around 30 homers, and prob close to 80-90 rbis...i know Dunn had the 40 hrs...but the .204 makes him difficult to trade...again Wells is just one name, I can go through a list and tell you many guys that were never traded my man
    I get his average was horrid but RBI and Home runs carry a ton of weight for some odd reason especially in the american league... Even though he only hit 204 he still had a 333 OBP because of those 105 walks....105 walks/40 plus home runs and almost 100 RBI with 2 years and 30 mill remaining makes you tradeable.

    What was meant for me will be Mine once again... THE CHAMP OF CHAMPS IS BACK

  7. #52
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    ok...you win...hes tradeable...takes away from my original point and honestly your original point that Dunn would be a better fit for this team...i just will not agree with that

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyfan1 View Post
    ok...you win...hes tradeable...takes away from my original point and honestly your original point that Dunn would be a better fit for this team...i just will not agree with that


    It helps make my point...If we had that contract we could either keep him and his similar Howard value or trade him and put Utley at first.... He would be a better fit because he is a similar player to who we have but with far less on the contract.

    Edit- I am done with this as well.
    Last edited by More-Than-Most; 12-14-2012 at 12:25 AM.

    What was meant for me will be Mine once again... THE CHAMP OF CHAMPS IS BACK

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post


    It helps make my point...If we had that contract we could either keep him and his similar Howard value or trade him and put Utley at first.... He would be a better fit because he is a similar player to who we have but with far less on the contract.

    Edit- I am done with this as well.
    Your point is contingent on the fact, that even if he is as tradeable as you say he is, they still need to find a trade partner and thats no guarantee...then thats is even contingent on the fact that they would have had to outbid detroit for Fielder, thats the guy you wanted (which I agree, thats the guy you go after in this scenario)...plus Fielder was a FA last year...so the phils would be trading Dunn after the year he hit in the .150's...pretty sure he would be untradeable after that year...but that besides the point...i much rather have Ryan Howard in a phillie uniform and build around that...you much rather have Adam Dunn...then try and make a trade or 2, which is fine...agree to disagree

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    How am I arguing with myself when others laughed at the notion of dunn over Howard when in fact they are similar players but one costs damn near 3 times as much as the other? So you think the contract is bad as well correct? Then how am I wrong in saying Dunn would have been the far better option? And lets not act like I am saying it now and only now...Me and sexi were on this boat before we signed howard
    Dunn's act would have run him out of Philly by now. He's a LH Dave Kingman. You like him, others don't and would take Ryno in almost any circumstance, You're just going to have to learn to live with this fact.
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  11. #56
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    I can't get involved in this non-sensical discussion...I would take howard over dunn 100 times out of 100...

  12. #57
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    In retrospect, I would take neither.
    Now writing for FanGraphs, RotoGraphs, The Hardball Times, and The Fake Baseball

    Follow me on Twitter for article updates @baseballATeam

  13. #58
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    haha...as most people in here would say...not me...love Howard...JUST GET HEALTHY AND STOP SWINGING AT THAT LOW AND AWAY SLIDER!

  14. #59
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    Holy Crap...this again? We were kind of due...it has been 38 days since we last spoke of him!

    MTM - you are grounded! I know you are good with computers so you must set up a filter on your browser that blacks out any pages that have the words "Howard' an "Ribeys!"

    Once you figure out how to write the program, send it to Sexi (if he is ever allowed back out to play on PSD) and to Ender ( you may have to go to Cape May and install it on his Commodore 64 for him though).

  15. #60
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    I'm kind of glad the Phillies didn't sign Hamilton (regardless of cost). I just know Charlie would have batted Hamilton and Howard together and LOOGYs would have cleaned up.

    For those who haven't watched Hamilton regularly, he has the exact same weakness to low and away sliders from lefties. It would have been ugly to watch them have identically terrible at bats late in every game.
    Now writing for FanGraphs, RotoGraphs, The Hardball Times, and The Fake Baseball

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