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  1. #16
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    Olney said on Twitter that Ichiro turned down 2/14 from the Phillies. So there's that.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    I guess neither of you looked at the fact that he signed a 4 year 56 million dollar deal? ..He has what 2 years left and like 25 mill? That is why I would have signed dunn because he was a similar player to howard but cost less then half as much as Howard. We could have ate the rest of his contract and signed someone else or traded for someone else.

    I had to respond to this. Ryan Howard adds much more to a team than Adam Dunn does for baseball reasons that many of us know, and I will not take the time to write out. However, I will say this...there is something to say in building a team with a core of players that have come up through the system. Howard was one of those guys. There is a reason this team is SO likable. A lot of good character and homegrown guys. Compare the likability of the Phillies and the Eagles. Almost no homegrown talent there from the draft...its terrible. The Phillies have become a destination FA's want to come to, and Howard is, maybe a small, reason why they are able to spend the way they do. So for that reason, and that reason alone, Adam Dunn is not in the same league as Howard. It goes beyond the numbers.

  3. #18
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    I'm just going to respond to the first sentence since the rest of the statement is a soft argument. It may be true. It may not be true. And it's even one of those things that could be true sometimes but not other times. In other words, as outsiders, we can't correctly adjust for it.

    As for the first sentence, it is a statistical fact that Howard and Dunn are very similar hitters. Maybe even extremely similar. They're even similarly terrible in the field, although Dunn is a bit worse.
    Now writing for FanGraphs, RotoGraphs, The Hardball Times, and The Fake Baseball

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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyfan1 View Post
    I had to respond to this. Ryan Howard adds much more to a team than Adam Dunn does for baseball reasons that many of us know, and I will not take the time to write out. However, I will say this...there is something to say in building a team with a core of players that have come up through the system. Howard was one of those guys. There is a reason this team is SO likable. A lot of good character and homegrown guys. Compare the likability of the Phillies and the Eagles. Almost no homegrown talent there from the draft...its terrible. The Phillies have become a destination FA's want to come to, and Howard is, maybe a small, reason why they are able to spend the way they do. So for that reason, and that reason alone, Adam Dunn is not in the same league as Howard. It goes beyond the numbers.
    And I will respond to this in a similar way I responded to something Ender said recently...No he doesnt.... They are nearly similar players while one costs almost 3 times more.....The he adds more to the team is bogus on a team with about 12 other leader type guys. If this was the royals you would have a point.

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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    And I will respond to this in a similar way I responded to something Ender said recently...No he doesnt.... They are nearly similar players while one costs almost 3 times more.....The he adds more to the team is bogus on a team with about 12 other leader type guys. If this was the royals you would have a point.
    but he has a real presence out there. at least $8-10m per year worth.

  6. #21
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    DIE! DIE-DIE-DIE!!!

    Adam ****ing Dunn? Still? I'm sure his .202/222k performance would really win over those 35,000+ Sabermetric wonks that fill CBP every night. He'd go over really well in Philly.
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  7. #22
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    Howard and Dunn's AVG/K numbers were basically identical last year on a rate basis. Yes, Howard might bounce back. We'll see.

    Let's. Drop. This.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    DIE! DIE-DIE-DIE!!!

    Adam ****ing Dunn? Still? I'm sure his .202/222k performance would really win over those 35,000+ Sabermetric wonks that fill CBP every night. He'd go over really well in Philly.
    Its not about the saber stats but about logic.... Look at their contracts....Even if Howard Bounces back I doubt he will be that much better. I am not saying Dunn is the better player but the smarter player to have gone after at the time and that is still proven to be correct.

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  9. #24
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    Bah dammit I want Hamilton

    Lol wrong thread
    Last edited by More-Than-Most; 12-13-2012 at 03:12 PM.

    What was meant for me will be Mine once again... THE CHAMP OF CHAMPS IS BACK

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    Ruben spends money where there is a combination of available talent and internal need. It's unfair to critique the Polanco signing because that deal was a steal.

    Prior to this season, there have been few offensive holes for him to fill. He's paid out the nose for Howard, Ibanez, Pence (via trade) and bench bats. But he's also done well to sign Polanco and Rollins to well below market contracts and acquire a couple upside guys like Revere and Young at controlled costs.
    Well lets look at this year. Legit holes at LF and RF. Next year holes at Catcher, 2b, 3b, LF, and RF. What is Amaro going to do now. God forbid if he signs Scott Hairston

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Its not about the saber stats but about logic.... Look at their contracts....Even if Howard Bounces back I doubt he will be that much better. I am not saying Dunn is the better player but the smarter player to have gone after at the time and that is still proven to be correct.
    I don't think you'll find one person on PSD who thinks the Howard contract is a good one. You're arguing with yourself.
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  12. #27
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    cue sexicano to make a dupe account just so he can argue with ender about howard lol

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I don't think you'll find one person on PSD who thinks the Howard contract is a good one. You're arguing with yourself.
    How am I arguing with myself when others laughed at the notion of dunn over Howard when in fact they are similar players but one costs damn near 3 times as much as the other? So you think the contract is bad as well correct? Then how am I wrong in saying Dunn would have been the far better option? And lets not act like I am saying it now and only now...Me and sexi were on this boat before we signed howard

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  14. #29
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    I love Howard....glad he is a phillie

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    I love Howard....glad he is a phillie
    he is a great guy no doubt and I am glad he was a Phillie in his prime....Now I wish he was on another team

    Its not Howard hate at all honestly.

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