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  1. #31
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    I don't understand the point of bringing up Dunn.

    They are similar players. Agreed. (Though it should be mentioned that Howard has clearly had the better career. Former MVP and will go down as one of the greatest players in our franchise's history.).

    And Dunn makes less money. Ok.

    So if we had Dunn we would some how be a better team? Even though Howard's contract has not restricted our spending in anyway? This notion that we would be a better team if we had Dunn is just ridiculous moneyball nonsense.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reptar View Post
    I don't understand the point of bringing up Dunn.

    They are similar players. Agreed. (Though it should be mentioned that Howard has clearly had the better career. Former MVP and will go down as one of the greatest players in our franchise's history.).

    And Dunn makes less money. Ok.

    So if we had Dunn we would some how be a better team? Even though Howard's contract has not restricted our spending in anyway? This notion that we would be a better team if we had Dunn is just ridiculous moneyball nonsense.
    um yes we would be a better team because we could have done so many other things...We could have possibly traded dunn to an american league team and went after fielder or moved Utley to first and gone after another 2nd baseman to help prolong utley at a less demanding position....There is a ton of things you can do when you are not paying someone 125 mill at a poor position.

    Dunn/Howard are near the same value as well...So its not even a question that with Dunn we would be in a better position because of the financial and positional flexibility.

    You saying Howard has not restricted our spending is False.... any and all bad contracts restrict us to a certain point...We will not go above the luxury tax...We proved that by trading Pence so we can sign Cole .I am ok with not over paying for certain guys but lets not act like the bad contracts are not hindering us.... There is a reason we wont spend like the Dodgers and go over the imaginary tax line.
    Last edited by More-Than-Most; 12-13-2012 at 09:20 PM.

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  3. #33
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    So you wish we signed Dunn, just so we could have traded him to an American League team? Okkkkk.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reptar View Post
    So you wish we signed Dunn, just so we could have traded him to an American League team? Okkkkk.
    No I wish we would have signed dunn because he is of similar value to Howard but damn near a 3rd less from a cost perspective. The point of the trade idea is the fact that Dunns contract does not make him untradeable... Howard we are stuck with....How are you not getting this?

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    um yes we would be a better team because we could have done so many other things...We could have possibly traded dunn to an american league team and went after fielder or moved Utley to first and gone after another 2nd baseman to help prolong utley at a less demanding position....There is a ton of things you can do when you are not paying someone 125 mill at a poor position.

    Dunn/Howard are near the same value as well...So its not even a question that with Dunn we would be in a better position because of the financial and positional flexibility.
    Man...you really must have a thing for Adam Dunn...it was never even an afterthought that he would be a Phillie...Howards signed his extension before Dunn hit free agency, and do not come to me and say the phils should have traded for him...the argument about financial flexibility is honestly also irrelevant...if they want a guy they would make it happen...angels and dodgers' stadiums are half full, half the time and look at how they are spending, if the phils wanted to spend they could do the same, because of the TV deals, which we all know is coming...so again we have the "financial flexibility"...it just comes down to ownership and Ruben wanting to use it and using it on the right players

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyfan1 View Post
    Man...you really must have a thing for Adam Dunn...it was never even an afterthought that he would be a Phillie...Howards signed his extension before Dunn hit free agency, and do not come to me and say the phils should have traded for him...the argument about financial flexibility is honestly also irrelevant...if they want a guy they would make it happen...angels and dodgers' stadiums are half full, half the time and look at how they are spending, if the phils wanted to spend they could do the same, because of the TV deals, which we all know is coming...so again we have the "financial flexibility"...it just comes down to ownership and Ruben wanting to use it and using it on the right players
    We know the TV deal is coming but our Owners are not as rich as say the Yanks/Dodgers....They will not go past a certain point and that has clearly been evident.... Also I know Dunn was never a thought for this team...I stated almost everyone in here at the time was against signing Howard because we knew how things would turn out with him....Most of us wanted Werth locked down instead and still do..... Me and sexi were saying before signing Howard we should go for Dunn/Werth because its smarter and again that is proven right because had we not let Werth enter free agency we could have had him for cheaper along with Dunn and we would not be stuck with such a horrid contract for a declining/hurt player at a poor position.

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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironman9518 View Post
    Who did you want him to spend the money on? He went out and got Pence when we needed a bat and he thought Dom Brown was gonna be able to come up and be solid
    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Werth-Before letting him hit free agency
    Dunn-not Howard
    Beltre-not Polly


    This is what started the Dunn talk....It was asked and I answered and that is where the dunn talk came from before people complain about us being off topic...Were on Topic

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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most:24719619
    Quote Originally Posted by Reptar View Post
    So you wish we signed Dunn, just so we could have traded him to an American League team? Okkkkk.
    No I wish we would have signed dunn because he is of similar value to Howard but damn near a 3rd less from a cost perspective. The point of the trade idea is the fact that Dunns contract does not make him untradeable... Howard we are stuck with....How are you not getting this?
    Yea your right. All we had to do was sign Dunn, trade him to the AL and we would have Prince Fielder right now. I don't know how I didn't get that at first. Your just speaking the truth. No nonsense here.

  9. #39
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    our owners may not be as rich as the yanks/dodgers...but we still have the ability to offer another 20 mil a year contract...so that means we have money to spend, no matter what Howard's contract looks like...its not like he is signed for the next 10 years...he has what 3 years left? That is not, by any means, a "horrid" contract

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reptar View Post
    Yea your right. All we had to do was sign Dunn, trade him to the AL and we would have Prince Fielder right now. I don't know how I didn't get that at first. Your just speaking the truth. No nonsense here.
    Your missing the point...Its not that hard to comprehend...Forget Fielder....Some of us stated before we signed Howard that we shouldn't over pay for him and that we should instead sign werth who is the better player and a better position and will age better and just fill first with a guy like dunn..... Do you understand now? Had we done that we would be in a much better position right now.

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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyfan1 View Post
    our owners may not be as rich as the yanks/dodgers...but we still have the ability to offer another 20 mil a year contract...so that means we have money to spend, no matter what Howard's contract looks like...its not like he is signed for the next 10 years...he has what 3 years left? That is not, by any means, a "horrid" contract
    We have that ability to offer 20 mill but not for 1 player over a long span...that is why we traded for revere and would not bite on Bourn/Hamilton...We have way to much money put into a core of guys and we have a line where we refuse to pass. That 20 mill will go on another OF and the bullpen and probably a back end starter.

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  12. #42
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    From a purely baseball perspective, yeah. But when are these decisions ever made in a vacuum? Howard meant too much to this franchise as a person/personality. Is the contract bad? Yeah. Did we know that when Howard signed? Yeah. But wishing now that we had Dunn is kind of useless. Yes, it might have opened up other doors, but I don't know if it's worth the debate at this point. It was a comment, and it's been beaten to death. (Honestly, I think we were having this conversation the last time I posted, and that was a long ****ing time ago). It's a valid point, but I wouldn't dwell too much on it.

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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reptar View Post
    Yea your right. All we had to do was sign Dunn, trade him to the AL and we would have Prince Fielder right now. I don't know how I didn't get that at first. Your just speaking the truth. No nonsense here.
    completely agree... You really think you'd be happy with Dunn having the 2 seasons he had in Chicago, here? Howard get his criticisms, but if a FA came to Philly and .154 then .204...and was the guy who replaced Howard, you really think that would be ok? Then you think we would still be able to trade him? Entitled to your opinion, but c'mon man

  14. #44
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    Us not signing Werth has nothing to do with Howard. There were just rumors we offered Hamilton a contract. I'm sure if we had the prospects we would absolutely take on Justin Uptons contract with no problem. Enough with your Billy Bean bs.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reptar View Post
    Us not signing Werth has nothing to do with Howard. There were just rumors we offered Hamilton a contract. I'm sure if we had the prospects we would absolutely take on Justin Uptons contract with no problem. Enough with your Billy Bean bs.
    Do you realize how amazing uptons contract is? Of course we can afford Upton but we do not have the prospects. We could afford 2 or 3 of him because of the player he is and the contract he has.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...ptonju01.shtml

    6 years 50 mill

    He has 3 years left until becoming a free agent....9/14/14.... For what he does and his upside/age its a steal

    We will not go over the luxury tax...have we yet? We always get close and make sure we stay under it....again LOGIC
    Last edited by More-Than-Most; 12-13-2012 at 10:37 PM.

    What was meant for me will be Mine once again... THE CHAMP OF CHAMPS IS BACK

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