what could we get for Johan?

[kmo429]

Yeah it's so funny because its the exact same team as the first half of last year right now that was 7 games over .500 at the ASG, except we likely have a better rotation now. It's a given we'll address the bullpen and at least 1 OF position in significant fashion too. The team will be better than it was at the start of last year, so why is it tough to believe we'll be in a potnetial WC 2 position come the TRade Deadline, just a couple weeks after the ASG?

You're just being a cynic who decides to be overdramatic rather than realistic. The MEts are slightly below average, and with a couple good pieces, an OF being one of the them definitely, we'll be an average or above average team, or maybe even good team if we can play 2 halves of the season unlike last year, and we can definitely fight for one of the WC spots.

[fanofclendennon]

Yeah it's so funny because its the exact same team as the first half of last year right now that was 7 games over .500 at the ASG, except we likely have a better rotation now. It's a given we'll address the bullpen and at least 1 OF position in significant fashion too. The team will be better than it was at the start of last year, so why is it tough to believe we'll be in a potnetial WC 2 position come the TRade Deadline, just a couple weeks after the ASG?

You're just being a cynic who decides to be overdramatic rather than realistic. The MEts are slightly below average, and with a couple good pieces, an OF being one of the them definitely, we'll be an average or above average team, or maybe even good team if we can play 2 halves of the season unlike last year, and we can definitely fight for one of the WC spots.

Yeah, I'm being overdramatic. We already heard Sandy say we can expect to see the same team in April 2013 that we saw in September 2013, minus one of our best sluggers, Scott Hairston.

That means the team that you say will be fighting for a playoff berth will be:

C: Josh Thole
1B: Ike Davis
2b: Daniel Murphy
3b: David Wright
SS: Ruben Tejada
LF: Lucas Duda
CF: Kirk Youspellhislastname
RF: Mike Baxter

If you think this starting 8 will be anything close to a playoff team, I'd like a hit of whatever it is you're smoking.

[BradHolt4CYoung]

Yeah, I'm being overdramatic. We already heard Sandy say we can expect to see the same team in April 2013 that we saw in September 2013, minus one of our best sluggers, Scott Hairston.

That means the team that you say will be fighting for a playoff berth will be:

C: Josh Thole
1B: Ike Davis
2b: Daniel Murphy
3b: David Wright
SS: Ruben Tejada
LF: Lucas Duda
CF: Kirk Youspellhislastname
RF: Mike Baxter

If you think this starting 8 will be anything close to a playoff team, I'd like a hit of whatever it is you're smoking.

But do you get that this team is equal/slightly better than the team that was 7 games above .500 at the AS break last year? If we did it last year with this squad, add in Matt Harvey for a full season, it's quite possible we can so just as well/better as last year (at the allstar break point) if that's the case then we wouldnt want to trade Johan because we would be in a playoff race (just like last year)

[metswon69]

You know the funny thing is even if the Mets improved catcher spots and one of the OF spots they could have a shot at that second wildcard.

Their bullpen was so atrocious last year (29th in the league in ERA and was dead last for most of the season) that hopefully with the infusion of the younger guys and even a veteran pickup they could be significantly better there. The rotation should be stronger with Harvey in it full time and Wheeler up by June.

It's just unfortunate they haven't done anything to address this lineup to this point and most likely won't.

[dunbummin]

Yeah, I'm being overdramatic. We already heard Sandy say we can expect to see the same team in April 2013 that we saw in September 2013, minus one of our best sluggers, Scott Hairston.

That means the team that you say will be fighting for a playoff berth will be:

C: Josh Thole
1B: Ike Davis
2b: Daniel Murphy
3b: David Wright
SS: Ruben Tejada
LF: Lucas Duda
CF: Kirk Youspellhislastname
RF: Mike Baxter

If you think this starting 8 will be anything close to a playoff team, I'd like a hit of whatever it is you're smoking.

Sandy didn't say that. Adam Rubin said it. Sandy said ""I would expect the roster will look similar to the way it did at the end of last year -- with some exceptions," Alderson said Tuesday. "It's hard to speculate. When you think about it, the trade market, signing free agents and so forth, it's relatively young in the season. It's hard, really, to accurately predict where things will end up."

Does "with some exceptions" register? The odds are at least 50-50 that you won't see Thole behind the plate on opening day. You'll see at least one different starting outfielder and possibly two. And neither Sandy nor Scott Hairston has ruled out a return to the Mets, in fact Hairston called it likely. Would the following roster be "similar to the end of 2012"? Five of the eight starters the same. Would it be better than 2012? A contender for a playoff spot? You tell me.

C: J.P. Arencibia
1B: Ike Davis
2b: Daniel Murphy
3b: David Wright
SS: Ruben Tejada
LF: Lucas Duda or Kirk Youspellhislastname (I suspect you know it's Nieuwenhuis)
CF: Leonys Martin
RF: Cody Ross

[Angry Norwegian]

The only reason we were watchable last year is that we hit .950 with RISP/2 outs. We overachieved big time in the 1st half.

Plus, that loaded squad in DC has this division locked up for the next 5+ years. All we can hope for is a ridiculous amount of luck.

[fanofclendennon]

But do you get that this team is equal/slightly better than the team that was 7 games above .500 at the AS break last year? If we did it last year with this squad, add in Matt Harvey for a full season, it's quite possible we can so just as well/better as last year (at the allstar break point) if that's the case then we wouldnt want to trade Johan because we would be in a playoff race (just like last year)

No, I do not.

You have to realize what happened for that team to play 7 games over at the All Star Break. They were leading all of baseball with 2-out RISP hits, which was unsustainable taking into account their batting average the rest of the time. David Wright was hitting at an astronomical level, above and beyond anything he had ever done in his career, also unsustainable.

We'll probably never see Johan Santana pitch like he did in the first half either. That said, i agree with you about their starting pitching: Dickey, Harvey, Niese, Gee, and Wheeler could be a hell of a rotation. And by going deeper into games, they'll make the bullpen better if only by requiring TC to rely less it.

But unless this team upgrades at 2 outfield positions and catcher, we won't be competing for anything in 2013.

In fact, we might as well start talking about 2014 now because 2013 is already a lost season.

[metswon69]

Well that's the good thing about the 2nd wildcard. There's a chance that team only wins 85-87 games.

If the Mets improve in the bullpen and get significant contributions from their rotation (which should be better next year) then all it really comes down to is acquiring a couple of bats.

Does Sandy Alderson do it? Who knows?

I think what we also have to take into account is how well Kirk and Duda play next year.

If Duda takes the necessary steps at the plate then we won't need a LF (we can deal with his defense if he hits 30+ homers and LF should be easier for him to play anyway) and i have confidence Kirk can make adjustments at the plate.

I know it's a lot of "ifs" but it is what it is.

[dasam12]

If he had a great first half of the season, I think his value would be pretty high... maybe a top 70 prospect + another top 10 prospect from a team. Every team gets crazy and desperate at the deadline, especially for starting pitchers. Mets would likely need to eat some salary though to make a solid deal happen.

If he's still injured/not his old self you'd maybe get Adam Lind.... (negative value trade).

I agree, someone will be looking for a starter at the deadline. If he has a good half I can see us doing it as a salary dump. Nobody would give up a top prospect for a Johan rental

[fanofclendennon]

Well that's the good thing about the 2nd wildcard. There's a chance that team only wins 85-87 games.

If the Mets improve in the bullpen and get significant contributions from their rotation (which should be better next year) then all it really comes down to is acquiring a couple of bats.

Does Sandy Alderson do it? Who knows?

I think what we also have to take into account is how well Kirk and Duda play next year.

If Duda takes the necessary steps at the plate then we won't need a LF (we can deal with his defense if he hits 30+ homers and LF should be easier for him to play anyway) and i have confidence Kirk can make adjustments at the plate.

I know it's a lot of "ifs" but it is what it is.

Too many.

[fifthangelkai]

Call me crazy but I truly believe Santana is going to have a 14-15 win season, it is his walk year so i truly hope my feeling is right, look back to all the injuries Beltran 3 yrs of injuries pleagued him then walk year was ouncing back and we got Wheeler maybe another miracle can happen. come the deadline Wheeler will mostlikely be in flushing so it wont be hard to see Santana go then will have
Dickey
Niese
Harvey
Wheeler
Gee (if healthy)

Now with that all said what we could get is anyones guess but like i said before who evr thought we would get Wheeler for Beltran. Mayb just maybe lightning can strike again.

Now another thought I have been thinking what could we get for Niese and his amazingly club friendly cantract? Maybe we could trade Niese, and Flores and Majia to the Angels for Trumbo, Wells and catcher Carlos Ramirez Ramirez is said to be an above average defensive catcher just thinking 2 outfielders and a catcher for a soild starter and prospects. Don't like that idea of trading Niese ok i get that but that is who has marketability and could bring something to help back in a trade...................

[Sick Of It All]

Call me crazy but I truly believe Santana is going to have a 14-15 win season, it is his walk year so i truly hope my feeling is right, look back to all the injuries Beltran 3 yrs of injuries pleagued him then walk year was ouncing back and we got Wheeler maybe another miracle can happen. come the deadline Wheeler will mostlikely be in flushing so it wont be hard to see Santana go then will have
Dickey
Niese
Harvey
Wheeler
Gee (if healthy)

Now with that all said what we could get is anyones guess but like i said before who evr thought we would get Wheeler for Beltran. Mayb just maybe lightning can strike again.

Now another thought I have been thinking what could we get for Niese and his amazingly club friendly cantract? Maybe we could trade Niese, and Flores and Majia to the Angels for Trumbo, Wells and catcher Carlos Ramirez Ramirez is said to be an above average defensive catcher just thinking 2 outfielders and a catcher for a soild starter and prospects. Don't like that idea of trading Niese ok i get that but that is who has marketability and could bring something to help back in a trade...................

Is just you because your female instincts tell you to be positive.

[metswon69]

Is just you because your female instincts tell you to be positive.

Yeah it's a nice thought to believe Johan can be a 15 game winner but at this point we would all sign up for him staying healthy till July so we can deal him.

[Sick Of It All]

I think he will be around a 3.75-4.25 ERA guy next year.

[metswon69]

I think he will be around a 3.75-4.25 ERA guy next year.

Yeah that sounds about right...

In that there's a possibility the Mets can get a low level prospect if they are willing to eat more of his contract.