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  1. #1
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    So where is all this free $ from Pujols contract going???

    Yeah some to Molina and Beltran for 1 more year. But, come on. This management has always buyed on low fruit and looks like it will continue.

    There isn't much out there for free agency but I would like to see a trade.
    I'd take a proven MLB player than a prospect any day of the week.

    Yeah this team was 1 win away from the World Series last season. But, really wasn't a outstanding team by no means. ALot of questions on health with this upcoming team.

    ANd no moves worth getting excited about yet.

  2. #2
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    This team doesn't need much added to it. We got what we really needed and that was a lefty specialist to go along with scrabble.

    The Cardinals have always found players to plug in and it has worked out and we've won alot with those kinds of "plug in" players. Seems like when we sign a guy we squeeze more production out of him than he was normally capable of.

  3. #3
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    While I agree this team doesn't need a lot added to it...might need something added to it with what the Dodgers are doing. Its a ****ing disgrace what they're doing to baseball. **** LA
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    I didn't want to throw this information out here. I was a 3 year varsity starter at QB in high school. I played quarterback in junior college as well. I was considering playing division 1 football as well but chose to pursue my career in business instead. However, currently I am helping train with Derek Carr from Fresno State get ready for his pro day and the draft. I am also working with Cody Kessler, the USC quarterback.

  4. #4
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    ^ what those to said.

    Adding big name free agents just to add them is completely idiotic.

    We have a ton of upcoming talent. No reason to spend big on guys like Greinke, Hamiltion other top free agents when you have so many guys coming up. You risk losing them because money is taken up and also risk blocking them from doing their jobs

  5. #5
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    We are a team that brings our players up through the minors

    The raises to Molina, and contract to Beltran are more than the average annual pay that Pujols was making.

    Nobody should be complaining about the Cardinals payroll. We continuously are winning, and have no needs on the field other than second/short. And throwing money at either of those positions this off-season would not have helped us.

    Our payroll is again, the highest it's ever been.

    And I'm happy we don't sacrifice our first round draft picks for flash in the pan free agents.

    Shelby Miller, Kolton Wong. These are recent first round picks for us that could have been lost due to expensive free agent signings.

    We also have a very full roster.

    If I was GM, our payroll would likely be dropping significantly next season with all the prospects coming through.

    We have a top 3 farm system right now. And that's in large part because we don't waste money on expensive free agents.

  6. #6
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    Adding payroll =/= better team.

    It also doesn't mean a front office is doing a good job if they're signing free agents. You should be excited about how the Cardinals are run top to bottom. A team primarily built on home grown talent and shrewd acquisitions. they do a great job of keeping their players too. Signing them to extensions to keep them around.

  7. #7
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    We don't need to over spend on guys on the market. I remember about 5 years or so ago when everyone I talked to that were cardinal fans complained how we have no farm systemand that we can't groom players in our system. Well I think they have changed that obviously. You can thank moz for being the big reason for that!

    Like I like that we have young guys who are basically ready to come up and contribute like wong, tavarez and a few others because our payroll will dip down quite a bit. It also sets us up if we really needed that one big addition we could go out and spend a little if we really needed it.

  8. #8
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    In the next 4 years our line ups will consist of, unless a serious injury happens

    1B Craig
    2B Wong
    3B Freese
    SS unknown at this point, Garcia possible
    C Molina
    LF Holliday
    CF Jay
    RF Tavares

    Also on the team could be Matt Carpenter

    Our pitching staff could include

    Miller
    Rosenthal
    Wainwright
    Martinez
    Boggs
    Motte
    Wacha
    Gast
    Jenkins
    Kelly

    How could people wanna sign free agents and not be excited about these guys coming up? 6 of our 8 starters in the field could be our how home grown guys, I count Freese because he was going no where in San Diego, we brought him in and developed him along. But if you don't wanna count Freese 5 of 8 is still incredible.

    Then add all that quality pitching.

    The cardinals are doing exactly what you have to do to be a competitive team for years to come. Develop your own players. Resign your own players. If your players are to expensive let them go. use your eveloped players as a base and sign free agents to fill holes in spots like we did with Beltran, Berkman and Furcal. Guys who don't break the bank or block the young talent

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by stlfan544 View Post
    This team doesn't need much added to it. We got what we really needed and that was a lefty specialist to go along with scrabble.

    The Cardinals have always found players to plug in and it has worked out and we've won alot with those kinds of "plug in" players. Seems like when we sign a guy we squeeze more production out of him than he was normally capable of.
    Pretty much how I feel about it. The Cardinals have, for many years at least, been upper middle in payroll, and I think that's because the Cardinals know they can't have a payroll like the Yankees or even the Cubs.

    Given the last 10 years, the Cardinals formula works. No reason to change it drastically.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy15 View Post
    In the next 4 years our line ups will consist of, unless a serious injury happens

    1B Craig
    2B Wong
    3B Freese
    SS unknown at this point, Garcia possible
    C Molina
    LF Holliday
    CF Jay
    RF Tavares

    Also on the team could be Matt Carpenter

    Our pitching staff could include

    Miller
    Rosenthal
    Wainwright
    Martinez
    Boggs
    Motte
    Wacha
    Gast
    Jenkins
    Kelly

    How could people wanna sign free agents and not be excited about these guys coming up? 6 of our 8 starters in the field could be our how home grown guys, I count Freese because he was going no where in San Diego, we brought him in and developed him along. But if you don't wanna count Freese 5 of 8 is still incredible.

    Then add all that quality pitching.

    The cardinals are doing exactly what you have to do to be a competitive team for years to come. Develop your own players. Resign your own players. If your players are to expensive let them go. use your eveloped players as a base and sign free agents to fill holes in spots like we did with Beltran, Berkman and Furcal. Guys who don't break the bank or block the young talent
    I like it! And with that team, the payroll will be a little down, so who's to say we couldn't spend a little on a shortstop? We sure as hell will be able to afford it.
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    I didn't want to throw this information out here. I was a 3 year varsity starter at QB in high school. I played quarterback in junior college as well. I was considering playing division 1 football as well but chose to pursue my career in business instead. However, currently I am helping train with Derek Carr from Fresno State get ready for his pro day and the draft. I am also working with Cody Kessler, the USC quarterback.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    I like it! And with that team, the payroll will be a little down, so who's to say we couldn't spend a little on a shortstop? We sure as hell will be able to afford it.
    There's also no reason not to keep Wainwright.

    Plenty of money in the future for it

  12. #12
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    That's what I think. Assuming waino is his old form or really a little better than his 2012 form, sign him for 4 or 5 years.... We have the money too.

    Shelby is good, but there is no way we can decide he's a #1 only after one year. Other than maybe him, there is no true 1 on our staff in the future. Whacha, Martinez, Lynn, Kelly.... those kinda guys are only #2/3/4's at best. I'm so glad they will be here but no one is a true ace IMO. A wainwright extension is the only thing we have to do before now and next offseason IMO.

    As jeffy and other have pointed out with payroll, we can afford it.

    The moment guys start getting arb eligible, guys like matt and Yadi are off the books.

    Moral of my story is, waino is an ace. Lets pay him like one and rely on our beautiful farm for the rest

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tkais9009 View Post
    That's what I think. Assuming waino is his old form or really a little better than his 2012 form, sign him for 4 or 5 years.... We have the money too.

    Shelby is good, but there is no way we can decide he's a #1 only after one year. Other than maybe him, there is no true 1 on our staff in the future. Whacha, Martinez, Lynn, Kelly.... those kinda guys are only #2/3/4's at best. I'm so glad they will be here but no one is a true ace IMO. A wainwright extension is the only thing we have to do before now and next offseason IMO.

    As jeffy and other have pointed out with payroll, we can afford it.

    The moment guys start getting arb eligible, guys like matt and Yadi are off the books.

    Moral of my story is, waino is an ace. Lets pay him like one and rely on our beautiful farm for the rest
    Really? I think Wacha has number 1 type of stuff...maybe I'm alone in that. But Martinez...I'd really like to see him as the closer. I don't want to see a small mans frame implode after a couple years with a ton of innings racked up
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    I didn't want to throw this information out here. I was a 3 year varsity starter at QB in high school. I played quarterback in junior college as well. I was considering playing division 1 football as well but chose to pursue my career in business instead. However, currently I am helping train with Derek Carr from Fresno State get ready for his pro day and the draft. I am also working with Cody Kessler, the USC quarterback.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    Really? I think Wacha has number 1 type of stuff...maybe I'm alone in that. But Martinez...I'd really like to see him as the closer. I don't want to see a small mans frame implode after a couple years with a ton of innings racked up
    I think Wacha is probably a good 3 or at his highest a 2. But I do agree about Martinez if they can't change his mechanics to make them smoother and put less stress in his shoulder/arm then just put him in the pen because he won't be any good to anyone with a messed up shoulder.

    I hope they can make an adjustment because the sky is the limit on his starting ability

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by stlfan544 View Post
    We don't need to over spend on guys on the market. I remember about 5 years or so ago when everyone I talked to that were cardinal fans complained how we have no farm systemand that we can't groom players in our system. Well I think they have changed that obviously. You can thank moz for being the big reason for that!

    Like I like that we have young guys who are basically ready to come up and contribute like wong, tavarez and a few others because our payroll will dip down quite a bit. It also sets us up if we really needed that one big addition we could go out and spend a little if we really needed it.
    In an ideal world.

    Beltran, Carpenter, Westbrook, etc come off the books.

    Payroll heads down to the lower 80's. We graduate our pitchers and have a rotation of one expensive piece (Wainwright) and the rest are league min or arbitration eligible. And our lineup is:

    C - Molina - 15ish
    1B - Craig - league min
    2B - Wong - league min
    SS - Garcia/whoever - league min
    3B - Freese - 4 mil (arb estimate)
    LF - Holliday - 17
    CF - Jay - 3 mil (arb estimate)
    RF - Taveras - league min

    Rotation

    1. Wainwright - 17-20 mil (guessing here)
    2. Garcia - 7.75 mil
    3. Miller - league min
    4. Lynn - league min
    5. Rosenthall/Martinez/Kelly/Gast/Wacha, etc etc etc etc - league min

    Depending on bench and bullpen, that should get us around 70-80 million. Then with the 40 million +/- you are saving, you start locking guys up like Lynn, Freese, Jay, Taveras, Wong, Craig, Miller, etc. Guys that you think you'll want to build around throughout the rest of the decade. Sign Miller to a Matt Moore like extension (if he will), Taveras to a Evan Longoria like extension (if he would). Get those option years on the back end, and guarantee them enough money for life now in their careers, in exchange for some nice savings on the back-end. Then, when payroll goes back up over the decade, you have some security with your youth movement and if you want to add that ace starter, or that veteran shortstop, you can spend the money and know that you are not risking the team in the future.

    Moz has shown an ability to do this. He has done it with Wainwright, Molina, Garcia etc. So I am hopeful he will do it further.

    You don't have to spend money to be competitive. Have a good farm system that graduates you your core, and then extend the **** out of those players. That's how you build a sustained winner. Free agency is the last resort to adding players, and it's highly inefficient, costly, and ineffective. There are so many negatives when going through the free agent route. Avoid it if you can.

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