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  1. #1
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    Is it time to make a move for Ellsbury?

    A lot of money came off the books this year, and while we have filled the outfield we are still looking for a name outfielder? What's Ellsbury thinkling right now?

    You know Ells thinks he is the greatest thing since sliced bread but in his quieter moments he has to take a more sober look at his stats, especially now with the way this off season has gone thus far. He has to know that he is one more bad season/injury away from losing serious value, and his safety net team is looking to kick him to the curb.

    Is this not the best time to make your final best offer? Extend or be traded, (while we list some of the dreadful places we are working deals).

    Four months ago it was pretty much agreed that the Sox were moving on without Ellls, it was just a matter of when. Right now I think it makes sense to pay him to stay, Agon-like money if thats what it takes.

    He is a home grown talent, and that matters. He should be part of our core going forward. He & Pedroia came up for our last world Series and should be given the task of leading us to the next, (with Pedroia being captain of course). What better core to lead our new guys thru the next 5 years?

    Yes we would probably have to overpay, and yes he is a "risk". That's often the cost of doing business in MLB these days. What's new right now is we can afford to "overpay" for Ells, and we can get a better deal than the highest bidder will later.

  2. #2
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    $20M per for a guy that hates Boston*, and takes off a month when he gets lemon juice in a paper cut?

    OMG.... this is ridiculous.

    * After fans and media treated him like dig crap over his ribs in 2010, it came out that it was legit. The word was that Ellsbury who didn't like Boston that much hates it now. He keeps quiet because why screw up your market. He won't sign here, and I don't want him even if he did, not for 6x20.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 12-11-2012 at 09:25 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  3. #3
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    I don't want Ells here long term at big money especially when you have Jackie Bradley on the cusp of being ready. Pass.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    $20M per for a guy that hates Boston, and takes off a month when he gets lemon juice in a paper cut?

    OMG.... this is ridiculous.

    Awful

    Wrong headed
    Wrong headed or out of the box?

    Stats and $ value don't build a winning team. Magic, the x factor, the vision thing - you can't put your finger on the third part you need.

    As for Ells don't even start with the fragile stuff, he got broken because he plays hard. I think we both agree on that. You are saying he sat out longer than he should. I've had broken ribs and it takes a month before you can laugh without it hurting, months before you are whole.

    Does he hate Boston? I can't blame him for not liking things that were said. Maybe he has the gear to want to prove the blowhards wrong.

    All said and done the kid is now a product of his manager. He is posing and maximizing facetime. Everything is a practiced soundbite. That's the business of MLB! Like a vet that signs for 1 year to prove value the kids are posturing during the arb years for the really big deal.

    Let's sign him this year and end the sales pitch.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by AI4LIFE View Post
    I don't want Ells here long term at big money especially when you have Jackie Bradley on the cusp of being ready. Pass.
    He plays how many outfield positions? 3?

    How many outfielders did we go thru last year?

  6. #6
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    Pass Pass and pass. Don't pass Go. Elllsbury is Overrated and Fragile as a Stick. No way i pay this guy over 21 mil going to 25. Someone people here are hesitating to pay Hamilton 25 mill dollars but want to give that to Ellls. Give me a break. Hamilton is so much a better player than Elllsbury would think or want to ever be.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MG956 View Post
    Wrong headed or out of the box?

    Stats and $ value don't build a winning team. Magic, the x factor, the vision thing - you can't put your finger on the third part you need.
    Ellsbury's career is 5% magic, 25% good, and 70% ho-hum/injured/can't hit leadoff.

    As for Ells don't even start with the fragile stuff, he got broken because he plays hard. I think we both agree on that. You are saying he sat out longer than he should. I've had broken ribs and it takes a month before you can laugh without it hurting, months before you are whole.
    He's got an agent that won't let him play at less than 100%. Where is that mentioned here? I don't hold the ribs against him myself, but that's hardly the only injury he's had. He also didn't have any power last year, this is encouraging to you?

    Does he hate Boston? I can't blame him for not liking things that were said. Maybe he has the gear to want to prove the blowhards wrong.
    He's following the money and he won't get it here. He's a poor risk going forward in a 5 year deal.

    Let's sign him this year and end the sales pitch.
    They've tried to extend him 3 times in the past. Only if we clearly went over the market would he sign, and why would BC be that stupid? It's senseless, he had his time here, and it's nearly over.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MG956 View Post
    He plays how many outfield positions? 3?

    How many outfielders did we go thru last year?
    In order to build the team the right way, Ellsbury is one of the few vets we have that has some trade value. He's not part of the future here. Cash him in now, or the deadline, or for a draft pick - whichever is the best value, and move on.

    I don't care how many OF'ers we have this year, we will not win, so overstocking is just a waste of resources.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  9. #9
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    If we can sign Hamilton/Swisher YES trade him with Lavarnway for a SP please !!! move SV to CF and we can don

    SV CF
    Pedy 2nd
    WMB 3rd
    Ortiz DH
    Hamilton/Swisher RF
    Napoli 1st
    Gomez LF
    Salty C
    Ciriaco (I WISH) SS

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    In order to build the team the right way, Ellsbury is one of the few vets we have that has some trade value. He's not part of the future here. Cash him in now, or the deadline, or for a draft pick - whichever is the best value, and move on.

    I don't care how many OF'ers we have this year, we will not win, so overstocking is just a waste of resources.
    x2

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MG956 View Post
    A lot of money came off the books this year, and while we have filled the outfield we are still looking for a name outfielder? What's Ellsbury thinkling right now?

    You know Ells thinks he is the greatest thing since sliced bread but in his quieter moments he has to take a more sober look at his stats, especially now with the way this off season has gone thus far. He has to know that he is one more bad season/injury away from losing serious value, and his safety net team is looking to kick him to the curb.
    I doubt that Ellsbury looks at it this way. My guess is that he believes that he is the player of 2007/2011 and that 2010/2012 were just bad things that happened to him. Not sure how he justifies 2008-09 but it doesn't matter. With Boras as his agent he will think nothing less than the best about himself.

    In fact, I bet that he could turn a complete lack of market in favor of his ego. "It's not that teams doubt me, it's that teams seem me as so valuable that they're scared they will lose me on the FA market after a season." Whatever the case, I don't think that he hired Boras to look at the possible negatives.

    Quote Originally Posted by MG956 View Post
    Four months ago it was pretty much agreed that the Sox were moving on without Ellls, it was just a matter of when. Right now I think it makes sense to pay him to stay, Agon-like money if thats what it takes.
    A-Gon like money? How can you justify that? He'd be among the top 10 highest paid players in MLB. He's had only one such season in his six years (okay, 5+) and he has no trend to suggest that he'll have another. I cannot justify anything like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MG956 View Post
    He is a home grown talent, and that matters. He should be part of our core going forward. He & Pedroia came up for our last world Series and should be given the task of leading us to the next, (with Pedroia being captain of course). What better core to lead our new guys thru the next 5 years?
    The need for "home grown talent" has very little to do with anything other than cost. You develop such talent because it's extraordinarily cheap (by MLB standards) for the first four or five years; thereafter it costs the same as the rest of baseball's mercenaries. By having a steady supply of "home grown talent" you keep the costs down so that you can make moves for bigger fish when they fit the profile.

    Knowingly overpaying a player into the top 10 MLB salaries just because he's home grown is silly.

  12. #12
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    Ellsbury won't stay in Boston. He should be traded. I say they give Hambone 3 years for 75 million. A lot of dough, but not a lot of years. Trade Ellsbury, Lavarnway, the 8th overall pick in next year's draft, and Lester to Seattle for Felix. Then go ask Atlanta if they have enough starters to get one of their young arms at a reasonable price. Maybe around Kalish or Bentz? Next year's lineup would be...
    Also, Sign Drew.

    1. Flyin Hawaiian CF
    2. Pedey
    3. Hambone RF
    4. Papi
    5. Middlebrooks
    6. Napoli
    7. Gomes
    8. Drew
    9. Salty and/or Ross

    Rotation
    King Felix
    Clay
    Lackey
    Doubront
    Possibly Aceves, also heard they were thinking about Morales. Or if they could land a young arm obviously they'd be in there. That team could definitely compete. Do we forget that Oakland and Baltimore made the playoffs and actually played very well.. If that team delivers then they could certainly make a run... I think as long as the sox add three more pieces they will contend regardless.
    An outfielder
    Drew to play Short
    Someone to pitch #1-3 in our rotation.
    Trading Jacoby makes this task much easier.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllSports4387 View Post
    Ellsbury won't stay in Boston. He should be traded. I say they give Hambone 3 years for 75 million. A lot of dough, but not a lot of years. Trade Ellsbury, Lavarnway, the 8th overall pick in next year's draft, and Lester to Seattle for Felix. Then go ask Atlanta if they have enough starters to get one of their young arms at a reasonable price. Maybe around Kalish or Bentz? Next year's lineup would be...
    Also, Sign Drew.
    .
    This isn't the NFL. Teams can't trade draft picks.

    Besides, why would the Mariners want a player with only a single year of control left (Ellsbury) and another with 2 years left, IIRC (Lester) for their ace? The M's aren't trading Felix, and even if they did, it would be for something like 4-5 of the Sox very best prospects, not soon-to-be free agents.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    This isn't the NFL. Teams can't trade draft picks.

    Besides, why would the Mariners want a player with only a single year of control left (Ellsbury) and another with 2 years left, IIRC (Lester) for their ace? The M's aren't trading Felix, and even if they did, it would be for something like 4-5 of the Sox very best prospects, not soon-to-be free agents.
    x2

    Think XB, JBJ, Webster, Rubby, Owens as the starting point for negotiations.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllSports4387 View Post
    Ellsbury won't stay in Boston. He should be traded. I say they give Hambone 3 years for 75 million. A lot of dough, but not a lot of years. Trade Ellsbury, Lavarnway, the 8th overall pick in next year's draft, and Lester to Seattle for Felix. Then go ask Atlanta if they have enough starters to get one of their young arms at a reasonable price. Maybe around Kalish or Bentz? Next year's lineup would be...
    Also, Sign Drew.

    1. Flyin Hawaiian CF
    2. Pedey
    3. Hambone RF
    4. Papi
    5. Middlebrooks
    6. Napoli
    7. Gomes
    8. Drew
    9. Salty and/or Ross

    Rotation
    King Felix
    Clay
    Lackey
    Doubront
    Possibly Aceves, also heard they were thinking about Morales. Or if they could land a young arm obviously they'd be in there. That team could definitely compete. Do we forget that Oakland and Baltimore made the playoffs and actually played very well.. If that team delivers then they could certainly make a run... I think as long as the sox add three more pieces they will contend regardless.
    An outfielder
    Drew to play Short
    Someone to pitch #1-3 in our rotation.
    Trading Jacoby makes this task much easier.
    I don't ever use these... But...


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