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View Poll Results: ?

Voters
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  • Luke Kuechly

    16 20.78%
  • Bobby Wagner

    12 15.58%
  • Harrison Smith

    14 18.18%
  • Lavonte David

    6 7.79%
  • Chandler Jones

    13 16.88%
  • Other

    5 6.49%
  • Casey Hayward

    11 14.29%
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Thread: Droy?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    I've watched David play this year, and he's been excellent, and really helped that defense improve, but the biggest reason for TB's improvement against the run is due to them being healthier on the DL this season.

    Also, does TB still run a Tampa-2 system? If so, that would explain the inflated tackles for an OLB in a 4-3.

    Even though Kuechly, David, and Wagner are pretty close in stats (which is what it will be decided by for the most part), I'll stick with my homer pick for Kuechly. Kuechly and Wagner both call the plays for their defense and IMO play a more important position (MLB), but Kuechly plays on a very bad defense, whereas Wagner plays on a top 5 defense.
    But without Wagner we aren't a top 5 defense

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    I've watched David play this year, and he's been excellent, and really helped that defense improve, but the biggest reason for TB's improvement against the run is due to them being healthier on the DL this season.

    Also, does TB still run a Tampa-2 system? If so, that would explain the inflated tackles for an OLB in a 4-3.

    Even though Kuechly, David, and Wagner are pretty close in stats (which is what it will be decided by for the most part), I'll stick with my homer pick for Kuechly. Kuechly and Wagner both call the plays for their defense and IMO play a more important position (MLB), but Kuechly plays on a very bad defense, whereas Wagner plays on a top 5 defense.
    I disagree with most of this. Healthier on the DL? Adrian Clayborn is on IR, DaQuan cam back more than halfway through the season, and Roy Miller has had some injuries.

    We don't run the Tampa-2 anymore, Schiano and Sullivan took over and made their own defense. It's an aggressive, down-hill style 4-3 with a little bit of everything mixed in, similar to most 4-3 defenses except maybe a little more aggressive.

    I don't really get the point about 4-3 OLBs in cover 2 schemes having bloated tackle numbers, Chicago runs a cover 2 and Briggs only has 81 tackles. MLBs are the ones with inflated tackle stats if anything. Go look at the league leaders in tackles, most of them are MLBs. In the top 11 7 are 4-3 MLBs 2 are 3-4 ILBs 1 is a 3-4 OLB and Lavonte David is the only 4-3 OLB.

    Lavonte also makes all the calls for the defense and we are the Number 1 rush defense, which is one of his main assignments, stopping the run.

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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85BearsDefense View Post
    Ehhh... He was up against Jeffery the whole game and besides the hail merry he held him in check and then got ejected, he starts for the Pats now and is playing really well. He for the most part when healthy was a shutdown corner at Nebraska.
    He was good at Neb but then he showed some holes in the post draft process that were scary.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinny642 View Post
    But without Wagner we aren't a top 5 defense
    Also when you play on a bad Defense you get more of a chance to pad your stats.
    Last edited by NateyB24; 12-14-2012 at 03:58 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateyB24 View Post
    Also when you play on a bad Defense you get more of a chance to pad your stats.
    This...

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateyB24 View Post
    Also when you play on a bad Defense you get more of a chance to pad your stats.
    Yeah that too

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinny642 View Post
    But without Wagner we aren't a top 5 defense
    Based on what exactly? Seattle was the #9 defense last season, this season they're #3. Who's to say that the jump isn't from having an extra season to progress?

    Quote Originally Posted by bwallstreet View Post
    I disagree with most of this. Healthier on the DL? Adrian Clayborn is on IR, DaQuan cam back more than halfway through the season, and Roy Miller has had some injuries.

    We don't run the Tampa-2 anymore, Schiano and Sullivan took over and made their own defense. It's an aggressive, down-hill style 4-3 with a little bit of everything mixed in, similar to most 4-3 defenses except maybe a little more aggressive.

    I don't really get the point about 4-3 OLBs in cover 2 schemes having bloated tackle numbers, Chicago runs a cover 2 and Briggs only has 81 tackles. MLBs are the ones with inflated tackle stats if anything. Go look at the league leaders in tackles, most of them are MLBs. In the top 11 7 are 4-3 MLBs 2 are 3-4 ILBs 1 is a 3-4 OLB and Lavonte David is the only 4-3 OLB.

    Lavonte also makes all the calls for the defense and we are the Number 1 rush defense, which is one of his main assignments, stopping the run.
    The thing I was referring to on the DL was the fact that Gerald McCoy has been back. The dude is an absolute force, and his absence (IMO) was the biggest reason the TB defense was so bad against the run last year.

    I wasn't sure what type of 4-3 TB ran now. The reason I mentioned OLB's having inflated tackles in a T2 defense is that the DL in a T2 defense is supposed to push the running lane towards the WLB.

    I didn't realize David was calling plays. I've never really heard of an OLB calling the plays. I obviously don't watch TB as much as a TB fan, but does David more or less play the role of a MLB, but at the OLB position?

    Quote Originally Posted by NateyB24 View Post
    Also when you play on a bad Defense you get more of a chance to pad your stats.
    Not necessarily in Kuechly's case. He's on a defense that is abysmal against the deep pass. That's not going to help him stat-pad. They also usually stay in close games, so it's not like he's getting tackles from teams just running the ball all of the 4th quarter.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    Based on what exactly? Seattle was the #9 defense last season, this season they're #3. Who's to say that the jump isn't from having an extra season to progress?



    The thing I was referring to on the DL was the fact that Gerald McCoy has been back. The dude is an absolute force, and his absence (IMO) was the biggest reason the TB defense was so bad against the run last year.

    I wasn't sure what type of 4-3 TB ran now. The reason I mentioned OLB's having inflated tackles in a T2 defense is that the DL in a T2 defense is supposed to push the running lane towards the WLB.

    I didn't realize David was calling plays. I've never really heard of an OLB calling the plays. I obviously don't watch TB as much as a TB fan, but does David more or less play the role of a MLB, but at the OLB position?



    Not necessarily in Kuechly's case. He's on a defense that is abysmal against the deep pass. That's not going to help him stat-pad. They also usually stay in close games, so it's not like he's getting tackles from teams just running the ball all of the 4th quarter.
    We had David Hawthorne who was pretty solid, but we traded him so take out Wagner and our LB corp gets tremendously weaker. Wagner is clearly our best LB right now. Of course everyone else improved a bit, but the way Wagner is producing is really great.

  9. #69
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    @manbearchef....thats not an accurate description of a tampa 2 scheme, go watch the bears...tell me if they funnel away from urlacher and towards briggs.

    He's really not acting as a MLB hes playing the classic WILL Backer but he's honestly doing a great job. I would go so far as to say right now today, he is the best Weakside 4-3 LB in the NFL and that is as a rookie. Mason Foster, our MLB has 82 tackles himself and most of them are solo as well.

    I think the thing that gets lost in translation about Lavonte is how fast he plays. He is one of the most dominant 4-3 OLBs in the NFL today because of his speed, reads and decision making. He flies around the field. The reason he is 3rd in the NFL in TFLs, is because when he sees that outside run coming his way he knifes into the backfield wraps them up and takes em down. If he improves in pass coverage he has a real shot to be the best 4-3 LB in the NFL and I know people think Im getting ahead of myself with this, he reminds me of 55 and it's crazy how good this kid is. He is like a sponge, they had him calling defensive plays second week of training camp. Absolutely amazing, most rookies don't produce quite as well as they did in collehe right away, he is better than he was against college players now.

    You were right about McCoy and last year tho. He's an elite DT and a force on the interior, OLineman just cant handle him. If you put tape of him and Suh up to each other and compare, which I have done. Gerald McCoy this year blows Suh and every other DT not named Geno Atkins out the water. He's blowing up blocking schemes left and right. He is making backs do things they don't want to do. If he doesn't get voted into the pro-bowl this year it's a sham.

    MLBs have bloated tackles tho, it's quite obvious as I stated.

    I don't really get the point about 4-3 OLBs in cover 2 schemes having bloated tackle numbers, Chicago runs a cover 2 and Briggs only has 81 tackles. MLBs are the ones with inflated tackle stats if anything. Go look at the league leaders in tackles, most of them are MLBs. In the top 11 7 are 4-3 MLBs 2 are 3-4 ILBs 1 is a 3-4 OLB and Lavonte David is the only 4-3 OLB.
    9 of the top 11 tacklers are ILBs or MLBs, 1 4-3 OLB in the top 11
    Last edited by bwallstreet; 12-15-2012 at 07:53 PM.

    BWALL & QUIK FIX THIS MESS
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    1. Teddy Bridgewater QB Louisville
    2. Jace Amaro TE Texas Tech
    3. Cody Latimer WR Indiana
    5. Ego Ferguson DT LSU
    5. Marquis Spruill LB Syracuse
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinny642 View Post
    We had David Hawthorne who was pretty solid, but we traded him so take out Wagner and our LB corp gets tremendously weaker. Wagner is clearly our best LB right now. Of course everyone else improved a bit, but the way Wagner is producing is really great.
    Traded Hawthorne? Shame to 12th men everywhere bud. He definitely was a FA last year and him and Seattle couldn't agree on money, he signed with NO.

    BWALL & QUIK FIX THIS MESS
    PSD Mock Draft

    1. Teddy Bridgewater QB Louisville
    2. Jace Amaro TE Texas Tech
    3. Cody Latimer WR Indiana
    5. Ego Ferguson DT LSU
    5. Marquis Spruill LB Syracuse
    6. Russell Bodine G/C North Carolina

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwallstreet View Post
    Traded Hawthorne? Shame to 12th men everywhere bud. He definitely was a FA last year and him and Seattle couldn't agree on money, he signed with NO.
    True my bad, because after he got hurt, we traded them Ruud, lol, my minds slipping.

  12. #72
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    Smith, but still too close to call,...

    "Killer Instinct"

  13. #73
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    Casey Hayward

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    Casey Hayward
    +1 and now with 6 INTs

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berliner View Post
    +1 and now with 6 INTs
    Didn't even let him start

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