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  1. #1
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    Phils could have had Asdrubal Cabrera

    Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN
    The Phillies talked about making a trade for Asdrubal Cabrera, writes Paul Hoynes.
    Cleveland Indians still looking for the right deal for Asdrubal Cabrera Tuesday, December 11, 2012, 2:09 AM

    By Paul Hoynes, The Plain Dealer

    CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Things move fast in the off-season. Just ask the Indians and Phillies.

    Before the start of the winter meetings last week in Nashville, the two teams were talking about a trade that would have sent shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera to Philadelphia for right-hander Vance Worley and prospects.
    The Phillies were looking to improve their aging offense, but they didn't want Cabrera to replace shortstop Jimmy Rollins, who is signed through 2014. They wanted the switch-hitting Cabrera to play third base.

    Philadelphia offered Worley and two prospects. Worley made 23 starts last season, going 6-9 with a 4.20 ERA, before having right elbow surgery in September. He was 11-3 with a 3.01 in 2011 and reportedly will be ready for spring training. The Indians asked the Phillies to sweeten the deal, but they said no.

    Last week at the winter meetings, the Phillies sent Worley and minor-league right-hander Trevor May to Minnesota for center fielder Ben Revere. He'll will fill a hole in center that was created when the Phillies traded Shane Victorino to the Dodgers last season. Over the weekend, the Phillies filled the hole at third by acquiring Michael Young from the Rangers for right-hander Josh Lindblom and minor-league right-hander Lisalverto Bonilla. Lindblom made 74 appearances and registered 22 holds for the Dodgers and Phillies last season.

    The Phillies, reportedly, will pay $6 million of Young's $16 million contract.
    Source

    Interesting read, looks like things would have been way different for us this offseason if the Indians bit on our original offer based around Worley. Wonder what else they wanted from us.

    Personally I think we made a mistake here, Cabrera could have played 3rd base until the end of Rollins' contract and then became our shortstop. A two time allstar shortstop at the age of 27 isn't exactly easy to come by, what we did with Young/Revere is fine for the short term but definitely no comparison to Cabrera in the long term. By the time Rollins leaves Asche will definitely be ready to come up, would have worked out perfectly.
    Last edited by bringbackfredex; 12-11-2012 at 08:16 AM.

  2. #2
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    Btw, I know that there was another crappy thread about some dude wanting Cabrera but I figured this deserved it's own because it was a confirmed story.

  3. #3
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    This was the offer that was said a week ago. Phillies balked at the additional prospect.
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  4. #4
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    I'm fine with this. Asdrubal is a great fit, but his value is as high as it possibly could be. We certainly would have had to sell what left we have of the farm along with Worley which I don't think Cabrera puts us over the top. I like the addition of Young better in this case where we kept our specs. The problem is that we ended up giving them up for Ben Revere which I thought unwise. Would have rather parted with 1 middle of the road spec for Span.

  5. #5
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    This is because Ruben A`moron doesnt know young talent or the minor prospects so he keeps going for the Vet`s and now what is the average age of our starters ? and what do we have left on the farm ?.....He get`s raped on just about every trade he makes and this is why he is better off with just signing free agents......I also have a feeling Josh Hamilton might be signed and the Mike Young sign was a precursor to the Hamilton possible sign .....
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  6. #6
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    Yeah. Boy. It would sure be terrible to have to end up signing Josh Hamilton.

    RAJ is certainly no Gillick or Beane-level genius, but saying he's gotten "raped" (lovely choice of words, by the way) in every deal he's made is a little much. Has he overpaid sometimes? Absolutely. But that's how trades get made. If he doesn't offer up what he's offered up in the past we likely (for better or worse) don't end up with Lee, Halladay, Oswalt, Pence and the other few I'm sure I'm forgetting.

    He's been really good this winter. For the life of me I can't understand all the kvethcing and outrage over the Revere deal. Worley is a nothing-special #4. May has potential written all over him, but most agree he tops out as a #2-3, most likely a solid BP arm. Is there anything more replaceable in MLB than a 4th starter and a 6th inning guy?

    Some of these kids we've traded away might come back to haunt us, but since he took over 3 years ago none of them have. And 3 years is a lot of time in MLB. Those "kids" we gave up in '09 are 25-26 by now. Singleton is the only one that stung me personally, but the jury's still out on him, as well.

    Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, but Ruben is certainly not the buffoon he's made out to be in the pages. So he's not Theo Epstein. So what. Unless/ until we fall back into the sustained losing of the Wade era, I will support the guy.
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  7. #7
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    It would be fantastic to still have D'Arnaud. If I have one consistent gripe, it's that the throw-in portion of the trade is always way too good.
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  8. #8
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    That's valid. And D'Arnaud would be nice to have. But we're semi-ok at catcher, no?
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  9. #9
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    We're kind of stuck with Ruiz at this point and while he broke out last year, he's also getting old for a catcher. I haven't seen anything from Valle, Joseph, or Rupp to suggest they'll be ready in 2014, which means an extension with Ruiz is likely.

    I know I'm in the tiny minority, but I see Rupp as the most likely of the three to help the Phillies at C. Hopefully the others continue to improve.
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  10. #10
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    I understand all that, but it's not like we need a C to carry the offense, assuming continued decent health from the core. You don't see Valle or Joseph as being able to play decent D and hit .225?
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  11. #11
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    It'd just be nice to see some kind of progression from them, to at least show hope that they could handle backstop duties at some point. But to have them struggle to hit at AA and not be A+ defenders, doesn't give much hope to their future at the major league level.
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  12. #12
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    Ender,

    Given the other elements on the roster, I think they actually do need to get a fairly substantial share of offense out of the catcher position. Catcher at least has to provide 1/8 of the offense.

    Rollins, Utley, and Howard aren't going to be getting better. There's no obvious choice to replace that trio either so they'll be expected to form the core of the lineup despite declining. We're currently looking at Cody Asche as a replacement level plug for a couple seasons at 3B. Revere's offense upside is Juan Pierre, which isn't going to drive a lineup. That means Brown and Ruf need to breakout if they want new, young talent in the middle of the lineup. There are a couple other options, but they're not the kind that can be banked on.

    On a side note, I can't imagine the Phillies would even consider letting Utley walk, but we'll see how his health plays out.
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  13. #13
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    I don't get the negative connotation is stating that Rever's upside is Juan Pierre. Juan Pierre terrorized the NL for a good 6-7 years. Does that drive an offense? I don't know. But it's pretty good.

    I'd also assert that if you're counting on your C to provide dynamic offense in a league where there are 3-4 of those types of C then that would be atrocious planning on the part of the GM.

    So, assuming the GM knows this and goes out and gets 1-2 more OF bats, I believe offense from the C is less important in a functioning lineup. Plus, I put the odds of Chooch repeating his '12 #'s at about 300 to 1.
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  14. #14
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    Actually...

    There were 16 catchers in 2012 who were above average (defined as wRC+ greater than 100) in over 300 PA. And Brian McCann wasn't one of those. Nor was Travis D'Arnaud or Victor Martinez or Chris Iannetta.

    I'm not saying they need a 150 wRC+ like Ruiz (read 50% better than the league average hitter). But they do need to be a league average bat or better.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...rs=0&sort=18,d
    Last edited by The A Team; 12-13-2012 at 09:24 AM.
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  15. #15
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    And of course Chooch is a long shot to repeat his numbers. But he can still be very good without doing so.
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