Big Vince For DPOY

[nasthemasta]

I wouldn't and the scouting stats (i.e. PFF) agrees with me.

I watch Pats games as I watch Niners games given that I make it a prerogative to know elite teams as well as I can. Wilfork is a fantastic player, but Smith is currently one of the top D lineman in the NFL and is one of the key reasons for Niner's D ridiculous dominance.



They both play DL; they aren't as different players as you try to paint.

And no, there are many other positions on defense than can hold as much value to NT if not likely more, especially in today's game. Pass rushers undoubtedly hold more value than a NT. As do elite playmakers like Revis, Reed, Washington, Polamalu, Earl Thomas, Sherman, Willis, Bowman, etc.

Wilfork's value is second to none on a very average defense. As an overall defensive player, his value wouldn't cut the top 10 in the NFL and his position is in no way the most valuable. He is what he is, a a very good player, but trying to convince that a traditional NT in today's NFL still holds the most valuable is a flat out lie. That title goes to pass rushers and then probably elite playmakers. NTs generally hold great value against the run which is what Wilfork obviously excels in. HOWEVER, as already mentioned, given the love for passing these days, NT does not hold near the value it once did.

What? A 4-3 DE and a 3-4 NT are both defensive lineman but aren't even comparable

[astrosmaniac]

What? A 4-3 DE and a 3-4 NT are both defensive lineman but aren't even comparable

but a 3-4 DE and a 4-3 DT aren't THAT different. smith isnt a 4-3 end

[kozelkid]

What? A 4-3 DE and a 3-4 NT are both defensive lineman but aren't even comparable

Smith is a 3-4 DE... You know, the kind of player who probably plays DT in a 4-3 scheme, just like Wilfork would.

[hugepatsfan]

Smith is a 3-4 DE... You know, the kind of player who probably plays DT in a 4-3 scheme, just like Wilfork would.

Smith started his career as a 4-3 DE, just so you know.

[kozelkid]

Smith started his career as a 4-3 DE, just so you know.

And?

Idonije has switched between DE and DT for the Bears plenty of times. What's your point?

As of now, being 285 lbs, he certainly has much more of the body for a 4-3 DT than 4-3 DE.

[Gibby23]

And?

Idonije has switched between DE and DT for the Bears plenty of times. What's your point?

As of now, being 285 lbs, he certainly has much more of the body for a 4-3 DT than 4-3 DE.

Also, Smith plays inside on 3rd downs. Same front 7, but we take out our NT and move Smith and McDonald to the inside with Aldon and Brooks as the Ends.

[hugepatsfan]

And?

Idonije has switched between DE and DT for the Bears plenty of times. What's your point?

As of now, being 285 lbs, he certainly has much more of the body for a 4-3 DT than 4-3 DE.

My point is that they aren't similar players. Very different playing styles. Wilfork is a clogger inside (although NE has used him a lot at DE in recent years for their 3-4 looks). Smith is much more of penetrator, regardless of where he's lining up. I think Smith is quite easily the better player as much as I love Vince, but they don't really do similar things, even if their positions are similar.

[nasthemasta]

but a 3-4 DE and a 4-3 DT aren't THAT different. smith isnt a 4-3 end

I'm not talking about Smith and Wilfork...You said that they both play on the DL, so that made them not a different as we should think...Which is not an accurate statement

[kozelkid]

I'm not talking about Smith and Wilfork...You said that they both play on the DL, so that made them not a different as we should think...Which is not an accurate statement

Fine, I was referring to specifically NT, 4-3 DT, and 3-4 DE.

I'm well aware that a NT and a 4-3 end are vastly different, hence a 4-3 end that has to play in a 3-4 system usually plays OLB...

[kozelkid]

My point is that they aren't similar players. Very different playing styles. Wilfork is a clogger inside (although NE has used him a lot at DE in recent years for their 3-4 looks). Smith is much more of penetrator, regardless of where he's lining up. I think Smith is quite easily the better player as much as I love Vince, but they don't really do similar things, even if their positions are similar.

Obviously, but given that they play similar positions, there's no reason that there isn't an obvious measurable and comparable impact between the two. Just like you can compare a slot receiver to a flanker or a zone corner to a man to man one, even if their roles are different. And as you correctly pointed out, Smith is probably the more impactful player of the two (takes nothing away from Wilfork is VERY good in his own right).

[Denver-boy]

No, Von Miller should win it. I remember him kicking so much *** last year against us. Dan Connolly couldn't take his amazingness and was somehow knocked over after Brady kicked that punt. Nothing can touch Von. He is simply perfection, simply the best there is and has ever been.

^ this