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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedrofan45 View Post
    I'm debating with a dude that ONLY watches the big games. That's the reason I brought up the games in primetime along with the AFC championship. Unless you watch every Patriots game which I doubt you do because then you'd realize how much of an impact Wilfork has. He did start off fairly slow as the Patriots as a team did as well. But I still wouldn't fault him for that because as of right now he's playing like an all-pro. To be honest I can't really argue too much about it, because all I can do is show you game tape.

    You're putting Fairley and Suh ahead of Wilfork, who gave up 2 td's and 100 yard rushing to Arian Foster, while just last night Wilfork completely shut him down every time Foster came close to him. On 15 carries Foster only had 46 yards. The Texans were playing down for most of the game but if you watched, they couldn't do much at all with the run game.

    You're really only saying that getting pressure on the quarterback is what makes a DT valuable, which is simple-minded and makes you look like a child.
    (A) I'm not sure where you get the assumption I only watch big games. As of now, he has been very good (and fantastic yesterday) in 3 of the last 4 games. That's great, but I'm not going to take his SEASON production over other players who have produced longer and more consistently well for the ENTIRE season.

    (B) Wilfork played fantastic yesterday, but every player has both good games and bad. Trying to use the reasoning player A played better against player X than player B or C as a way to prove player A is better is flawed reasoning given that there is a variety of other variables that play a part in it.

    (C) I'm not saying that getting pressure is the only means that makes a DT valuable. You're putting words in my mouth. What I AM saying is that it holds MORE value in today's NFL than run defense. And frankly, that is the truth.

    Regardless, their value as both run defenders AND pass rushers is enough so that yes I value them over Wilfork, as does PFF- you know, scouts that actually watch over and grade EVERY snap of every player.
    Last edited by kozelkid; 12-11-2012 at 05:12 PM.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austeezy View Post
    No, I don't think you meant it. Don't think you meant it at all.
    Vince has been great once again this year, but he hasn't been as great as consistently as the other candidates. Not to mention he doesn't have the sexy stats.
    I actually did. I love hate Wilfork. I really think he should be in the convo. I think if he had that same attitude he played with last night the Pats D would be ranked in the top 8-6ish. Now you can choose to doubt me and thats fine but I know what I believe and what I dont.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot Pride View Post
    Underrated player, he could certainly be in the discussion considering he outplayed candidate Watt last night and has had a great season.
    That is what I am trying to say too. Wilfork might not have been in the convo but I bet he is after last night.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDirt05 View Post
    this is watt's to lose
    And I think he did last night. Watt has shown in games where he is picked to be a monster he disappears. I believe he showed the league he is not in the same category as the other guys in the running. Wilfork and Aldon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wade>Kobe View Post
    Are you ever going to make a serious Patriots post again, or is this just your deal, now?
    Honestly. I have been just no one believes me. I have curved my sarcasm when I started pissing off people I really didnt want to piss off. I guess fans should not be humble or non insultive when talking about rival teams.

    Now the Raiders are another story. When you have guys like Nips and the others who disappeared after they flopped. Those fans there is no reason to have a adult conversation with.
    Last edited by Bigdaddyburch; 12-11-2012 at 10:01 PM.

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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdaddyburch View Post
    I actually did. I love hate Wilfork. I really think he should be in the convo. I think if he had that same attitude he played with last night the Pats D would be ranked in the top 8-6ish. Now you can choose to doubt me and thats fine but I know what I believe and what I dont.



    That is what I am trying to say too. Wilfork might not have been in the convo but I bet he is after last night.



    And I think he did last night. Watt has shown in games where he is picked to be a monster he disappears. I believe he showed the league he is not in the same category as the other guys in the running. Wilfork and Aldon.



    Honestly. I have been just no one believes me. I have curved my sarcasm when I started pissing off people I really didnt want to piss off. I guess fans should not be humble or none insultive when talking about rival teams.

    Now the Raiders are another story. When you have guys like Nips and the others who disappeared after they flopped. Those fans there is no reason to have a adult conversation with.
    im still surprised that some of those guys even know how to work a computer let alone read

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Cyanide 28 View Post
    im still surprised that some of those guys even know how to work a computer let alone read
    I heard the Warden has been having classes.

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  5. #50
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    I love watching Vince and think he's great, but like someone already said, the voters like sexy stats and Wilfork doesn't have the sexy stats this year.

    Not like last year. Nothing sexier than this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVjSI0O2na0


    Btw, McCourty should have been penalized for a block from behind (if he wasn't, I don't remember).

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by torrance View Post
    I love watching Vince and think he's great, but like someone already said, the voters like sexy stats and Wilfork doesn't have the sexy stats this year.

    Not like last year. Nothing sexier than this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVjSI0O2na0


    Btw, McCourty should have been penalized for a block from behind (if he wasn't, I don't remember).
    Block in the back AND holding. The dude straight tackled Tolbert from behind. There was no "block" about that. lol.

  7. #52
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    Vince Wilfork should make the All-Pro team, but I don't think he should get DPOY. He's having an amazing season, but my vote goes to JJ Watt. Even though Houston got gashed last night, it was still amazing how many plays he disrupted. There was a sequence of plays where Watt hit Brady 4 or 5 times in a row, and Houston lined him up at strong side, weak side, and at nose throughout the game. He's an amazing player, and his motor never quits.
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  8. #53
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    No way for DPOY but he is definitely great. I would rank my top 5 DT's:
    1. Haloti Ngata
    2. Vince Wilfork
    3. Henry Melton
    4. Geno Atkins
    5. Casey Hampton
    Last edited by Eaglesfan05; 12-12-2012 at 12:59 AM.

  9. #54
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    Arizona's offensive line deserves serious consideration for DPOY.


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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZHawk1123 View Post
    Ngata plays 3-4 end and I'm fairly sure everyone considers Vince Wilfork better than Justin Smith.

    Smith is definitely great though.
    Seeing that Ive seen Wilfork at 3-4 DE and NT, I would not be going out on a limb by saying that both of these guys are better than Wilfork. The only people who would think that Smith isn't better (for the most part) are Patriot fans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wade>Kobe View Post
    Are you ever going to make a serious Patriots post again, or is this just your deal, now?
    Are you ever going to make a post where you don't talk down to people or is this just your deal now?

    Quote Originally Posted by B'sCeltsPatsSox View Post
    And Geno Atkins.

    People forget that Vince started the season off pretty slowly as well.
    I would put Geno and Vince right next to each other.

    And this. Vince did not play well at all for the first few games.

    Quote Originally Posted by pedrofan45 View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVjSI0O2na0

    get a couple more of these and it's his to lose
    No, not really. Vince will not even be in contention this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by BradyIsTheMan12 View Post
    Vince Wilfork should make the All-Pro team, but I don't think he should get DPOY. He's having an amazing season, but my vote goes to JJ Watt. Even though Houston got gashed last night, it was still amazing how many plays he disrupted. There was a sequence of plays where Watt hit Brady 4 or 5 times in a row, and Houston lined him up at strong side, weak side, and at nose throughout the game. He's an amazing player, and his motor never quits.
    Agreed on all points, as usual



    SOON



  11. #56
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    Quantifying Wilfork!

    On Tuesday, Patriots defensive coordinator Matt Patricia said it was difficult to use statistics to tell the story of Vince Wilfork’s value to the Patriots.

    Between the work he does in freeing up space for linebackers, taking on blockers, stuffing the run, collapsing the pocket as a pass rusher, and providing standout leadership on defense, his value is hard to quantify, Patricia said.

    ESPN Stats & Information took that as a challenge, comparing the performance of the Patriots defense when Wilfork is on the field to when he's off of it. The result are the numbers you see in the table to the right.

    Code:
    Patriots D with Wilfork on/off field
    	        On field Off field
    Plays 	        678 	168
    Yards/Rush 	3.60  	5.25
    Sacks 	        27 	1
    Dropbacks/Sack 	15.6 	105.0
    Quantifying Wilfork link

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    Seeing that Ive seen Wilfork at 3-4 DE and NT, I would not be going out on a limb by saying that both of these guys are better than Wilfork. The only people who would think that Smith isn't better (for the most part) are Patriot fans.
    I'll take Wilfork over Smith 10 times out of 10 and thats not a knock on Smith at all. Different position also. J. Smith 6-4, 270 (more of a DE) V. Wilfork 6-2, 325 (more of a DT)

    Ngata would be a better debate.

  13. #58
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    I can say with absolute certainty, Wilfork will not win the DPOY award.
    To some, he was just a boy. A boy who played football, a football player that grew to be a man. A man that took over a city, a city that he made his own, a city that stands behind him in hopes of becoming one of that cities all-time greats. To some, 2013 was a fluke. To some, he can't do it again. To some, he got lucky.

    To us though, to the Philly faithful, that QB is Nick Foles. To us, that's our QB.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I can say with absolute certainty, Wilfork will not win the DPOY award.
    Same. I would say 99% of PSD would agree.

    I wouldn't even want him to win it because there are more deserving players.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post

    No, not really. Vince will not even be in contention this year.
    Dude it was a joke, relax.

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