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Thread: Ukraine-Russia

  1. #1
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    Ukraine-Russia

    Russia troops have invaded Ukraine.

    Obama about to make a statement. Could get ugly.

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    Sorry but I'll reiterate my position: not our problem, I really don't care. Russia is a bully who picks on those weaker than them and is more of a nuisance than a threat.

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    Looking at it from a Russian perspective and it's not hard to see why they aren't messing around and will act aggressively. NATO and the West is about to move to their backyard, and they've essentially long been assured, at least as NATO is concerned, that that wouldn't happen. Clinton assured it. Both Bush's promised it. Now it's close to happening. It's like, in some dumb analogy, Russia being on the verge of setting up a new government in Mexico. We'd be freaking out too.

    We're going to get involved in some capacity, because we already have been. Yanukovych was democratically elected by those people, and would be up for reelection not too long from now. He's awful and I'm all for the Ukrainian Euro-shift, but it's certain we helped push for what's happened/happening and pulled some strings, and now that the revolution -- or whatever we want to call it -- has begun, we'll have to deal with it in whatever capacity.

    I love the revolution, I don't like our involvement or any future involvement, at all. But we're always involved, and have been since the 50s. It's just American foreign policy status quo at this point. Sadly. Because, as John McCain just said, we have this notion that: “We are all Ukrainians". We aren't, though.

    I hope Obama and Co. opt for less foreign involvement than more of it. Perhaps for once. Let's quit sticking our noses into everything.

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    It could be dangerous for Russia as well, if they invade Ukraine. They don't need another border conflict, to add to the mix.
    Last edited by WES445; 02-28-2014 at 06:42 PM.

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    send team america

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    Russia just approved a military invasion of #Ukraine

    What's Obama going to do next?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoCrew5 View Post
    Russia just approved a military invasion of #Ukraine

    What's Obama going to do next?
    With any luck, keep his nose out of it.
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    Kinda makes my gut instinct question.....Why the Olympics in Russia. Why did they do the Olympics only to go "Military" on their neighbor a week after. I did not give Putin's time in the world limelight much credence. Still believe he is a douche and a dictator. Is he angling to pay for the 50 billion debacle in Russia?--the Olympics. You got a World stage, fail, and then you go bully a weaker neighbor. When will they learn?

    Concerning the US's role....back off until the people actually "Want" to particiapate. The American people have not wanted, for good reason, to participate in both the R's and D's "confilicts" for the last decade. #TiredofWorldPolice
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    A couple of points.

    1) The Crimea is very important to Russia. It is their major naval base and merchant base on the Black Sea. It gives them access to the Mediterranean Sea via the Dardanelles. Losing Sevastopol, the base, means they can access the Black Sea only thru the Straits of Kerch. Very narrow and the Ukraine can shut them down easily. Short answer, the only real "warm water" port in Russia is Sevastopol.

    2) The only way the US can project force into the Crimea is to put aircraft carriers into the Black Sea. It's like putting a boat in a bathtub. Their life expectancy in case of hostilities would be measured in hours. Short answer, the US cannot do anything about the Russians in the Ukraine. So there is no point in even thinking about it.

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    I would also like adding it seems as if an agreement was in place for allowed troop movements to protect those interests. I know there are some disputes about the quantity allowed but at the same time the Russian troops haven't caused any casualties as far as I have heard.

    I don't know if it could be considered an invasion in the normal sense of the word considering it seems as if both parties were in some type of agreement to it more or less.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    With any luck, keep his nose out of it.
    I am surprised you respond with such a simple answer to such a complex problem.maybe most of your well thought out post are surface scratching at best.

    See sometimes country's sign a thing called a treaty. We did this with the Ukraine

    See to get them to destroy all their nukes we signed a treaty to protect them from Russian invasion. So this isn't Syria we have a international legal agreement to protect these people. If we do not do anything how can we be taken seriously when trying to negotiate anything, especially when it comes to Iran and their nukes?

    Oh yes how does history repeat itself, there was once a country who faced invasion from Russia forces and we promised to help, we did help but we Didn't follow through on our total agreement and now we're there today

    This country was Afghanistan.

    So my opinion is we have to up hold the treaty we signed,but right now it's watch and see. When the first shots fired or innocent people are killed we have to intervene or we show a lack of integrity when it comes to international relations. Where the respect is already low

    It doesn't matter what the American people want at this point, we can't complain on talk shows like mark Rubio did saying that Russians are violating treaty's if we're going to violate our own. It sucks that we may be put in a bad spot but I am sure right now Russia fully intends to call our bluff, but I am sorry we can't allow it
    Last edited by raiderfaninTX; 03-02-2014 at 02:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raiderfaninTX View Post
    I am surprised you respond with such a simple answer to such a complex problem.maybe most of your well thought out post are surface scratching at best.

    See sometimes country's sign a thing called a treaty. We did this with the Ukraine

    See to get them to destroy all their nukes we signed a treaty to protect them from Russian invasion. So this isn't Syria we have a international legal agreement to protect these people. If we do not do anything how can we be taken seriously when trying to negotiate anything, especially when it comes to Iran and their nukes?

    Oh yes how does history repeat itself, there was once a country who faced invasion from Russia forces and we promised to help, we did help but we Didn't follow through on our total agreement and now we're there today

    This country was Afghanistan.

    So my opinion is we have to up hold the treaty we signed,but right now it's watch and see. When the first shots fired or innocent people are killed we have to intervene or we show a lack of integrity when it comes to international relations. Where the respect is already low

    It doesn't matter what the American people want at this point, we can't complain on talk shows like mark Rubio did saying that Russians are violating treaty's if we're going to violate our own. It sucks that we may be put in a bad spot but I am sure right now Russia fully intends to call our bluff, but I am sorry we can't allow it
    Are you referring to the Budapest Memorandum? If so, that's not a treaty but a diplomatic document and has no enforcement mechanism built into it. The document PDF contains text in Section 2 that Russia appears to have violated but no where in the document does it specify what we will do if they violate it.

    I'm sorry for the people of the Ukraine, but this simply isn't our problem and we need to keep ourselves out of it. But to the point about this being a complex issue, it's not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Are you referring to the Budapest Memorandum? If so, that's not a treaty but a diplomatic document and has no enforcement mechanism built into it. The document PDF contains text in Section 2 that Russia appears to have violated but no where in the document does it specify what we will do if they violate it.

    I'm sorry for the people of the Ukraine, but this simply isn't our problem and we need to keep ourselves out of it. But to the point about this being a complex issue, it's not.
    So we can look to WWII and WWI to see how well isolationism works, it doesn't. So you find it okay to back out on our promises,but you probably had an issue based on you previous post when the republicans choose not to pay our debts?

    Explain this to me please.
    Last edited by raiderfaninTX; 03-02-2014 at 09:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raiderfaninTX View Post
    So we can look to WWII and WWI to see how well isolationism works, it doesn't. So you find it okay to back out on our promises,but you probably had an issue based on you previous post when the republicans choose not to pay our debts?

    Explain this to me please.
    You should go back and re-read the history of the two World Wars if you think that it helps your case.

    Again, the document is not a promise by the United States to enforce it. It's a broken contract by Russia to Ukraine. That needs to be enforced by the United Nations or the two countries involved.

    I'm sorry but you will have to enlighten me how our debt payments have any bearing on Russia or Ukraine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Are you referring to the Budapest Memorandum? If so, that's not a treaty but a diplomatic document and has no enforcement mechanism built into it. The document PDF contains text in Section 2 that Russia appears to have violated but no where in the document does it specify what we will do if they violate it.

    I'm sorry for the people of the Ukraine, but this simply isn't our problem and we need to keep ourselves out of it. But to the point about this being a complex issue, it's not.
    Under the treaty, the signatories offered Ukraine “security assurances” in exchange for its adhesion to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, whereby Kiev handed over its nuclear warheads to Moscow in the wake of the Soviet Union’s collapse.

    It is a huge stretch for us to say hey that doesn't guarantee anything. Again I could write all day from a strategic and international stand point how it hurts us to do nothing, but it's not worth it because it won;'t change your mind in your black and white world.

    I have supported Obama on a wide range of issues but I find it sad if Obama continues to draw lines in the sand for Russia to keep stepping over it. It's the sign of a week leader, I hope he can hit them at their purse strings to make them fall back but we will see.

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