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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoba Chughes View Post
    I don't see how it's all that much better than OPS. Also, the stat doesn't consider steals, so it really doesn't work well when you compare a speed guy against a power guy. Nor does it measure sacrifice bunts, or first to third on singles, defense, or really any of the things that Ichiro does better than Swisher.

    This is why it's a terrible stat when used in this context. If anything, this goes to prove my point that these two are closer than people think talent wise. Take the wOBA, which includes all of the things Swisher does better than Ichiro, and Swisher is +.40. Add the that the fact that Ichiro is a better defender, a better base stealer, better going first to third on singles and first to home on doubles, a better bunter, better at making contact, striking out less and yet not grounding into many double plays, thus making more productive outs. Add all of those things together, and they come pretty damn close to making up for +.40 wOBA points. Thus, my original point, which was that the Yankees saved $9 million while not sacrificing much at all in the way of talent and production remains completely intact, and one wOBA statistic is not going to be good enough to oppose that.
    I don't think you understand wOBA.

    Here, read up: http://www.fangraphs.com/library/ind.../offense/woba/

    There are more links once you click on that link. It shows why its better than OPS and that the current formula does include SB/CS numbers.

    Also sac bunts are one of the least efficient and effective plays in baseball. That's another debate though.
    Yankees - Jets - Rockets

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoba Chughes View Post
    wOBA does not tell the whole story of a player. Not even close. There's no one statistic that can tell you how good a player is, and even if there was, wOBA would certainly not be it.

    I agree it would have been nice if they signed Nate Schierholtz instead, but they didn't, so signing Ichiro was the next best thing IMO. Plus we know he can perform in NY. I was simply talking about the money we save by not signing Swisher, which is $9 million. That money saved can either go towards getting under the cap, which is a foregone conclusion by the way so everybody needs to swallow that pill, or it can go towards acquiring more talent. Personally, I'll take Ichiro and the financial flexibility he brings versus Swisher and his .360 wOBA.
    And I would argue the next best thing was still a mistake. If the goal was to save money, spending what we do spend wisely makes more sense than simply signing a big name vet. If the goal is the best OF option, we failed there as well. It's either one or the other.

  3. #303
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    2 more years of Ichiro? Awesome.

    Our QB > Yours

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyyfan4life View Post
    I don't think you understand wOBA.

    Here, read up: http://www.fangraphs.com/library/ind.../offense/woba/

    There are more links once you click on that link. It shows why its better than OPS and that the current formula does include SB/CS numbers.

    Also sac bunts are one of the least efficient and effective plays in baseball. That's another debate though.
    I read the article and while it still takes steals into consideration, it unequally punishes caught stealing and it still doesn't account for the other things I mentioned. IMO still shows that Ichiro is close to Swisher, especially after considering defense.


    Derek Jeter is a lucky man.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rylinkus View Post
    And I would argue the next best thing was still a mistake. If the goal was to save money, spending what we do spend wisely makes more sense than simply signing a big name vet. If the goal is the best OF option, we failed there as well. It's either one or the other.
    but... his wOBA was lower than Ichiro's based on fangraphs!!!! (.315). Ichiro's career number is .339.

    I'm just kidding, but in all seriousness Schierholtz is great but he's not as complete of a player as Ichiro. He can really only hit righties. Obviously you could platoon him with someone who hits lefties, but then you're approaching the cost of Ichiro anyway. Schierholtz is better at hitting righties than Ichiro, but he's not a better player overall. I honestly don't see why they couldn't have signed both and DHed Schierholtz vs righties.


    Derek Jeter is a lucky man.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoba Chughes View Post
    but... his wOBA was lower than Ichiro's based on fangraphs!!!! (.315). Ichiro's career number is .339.

    I'm just kidding, but in all seriousness Schierholtz is great but he's not as complete of a player as Ichiro. He can really only hit righties. Obviously you could platoon him with someone who hits lefties, but then you're approaching the cost of Ichiro anyway. Schierholtz is better at hitting righties than Ichiro, but he's not a better player overall. I honestly don't see why they couldn't have signed both and DHed Schierholtz vs righties.
    If the argument is that Ichiro is nearly as good a player at a fraction of the cost, we can do the same with Schierholtz. He's nearly as good as Ichiro, at a fraction of the cost.

    And obviously, over the last 2 seasons, Nate has bested Ichiro's wOBA.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rylinkus View Post
    If the argument is that Ichiro is nearly as good a player at a fraction of the cost, we can do the same with Schierholtz. He's nearly as good as Ichiro, at a fraction of the cost.

    And obviously, over the last 2 seasons, Nate has bested Ichiro's wOBA.
    I think Ichiro will be playing hard for one reason....

    He wants 3000!
    Nick

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rylinkus View Post
    If the argument is that Ichiro is nearly as good a player at a fraction of the cost, we can do the same with Schierholtz. He's nearly as good as Ichiro, at a fraction of the cost.

    And obviously, over the last 2 seasons, Nate has bested Ichiro's wOBA.
    Your obsession with Nate Sherholtz is really disturbing.
    "I'm an administrator. I'm a good listener. I would not pass myself off as an evaluator of talent"

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