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  1. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by djall10 View Post
    I like Ichiro, but we have a player like him already in Gardner. I would prefer to have a player like Swisher in RF with Ichiro/Gardner platooning. It's a corner outfield position that needs some power...
    why can't have we have 2 speedy contact guys? Isn't that better than 1?

    We've become obsessed with power... who cares if people say a corner OF should have power?

    Yankees have led the league in HR's every year it seems or been near the top, yet teams like SF who hit 103 hr's last year won it all. We hit 245! We can afford to lose 50-60hr's if we replace that with good, solid fundamental hitters. take away even 75 hr's and we'd still be among the top power teams... that's how many HR's we hit.. yet it gets us nowhere. Is going from say 25 hr's in Swish to 5-10 in Ichiro really going to hurt our lineup when Ichy does so many other things well?

    STL was in the middle of the pack in 2011 in HR's, we led baseball again that year.

    we NEVER led the league in HR's when we had the 90's dynasty... when will people realize HR's don't win titles? Where did Curtis and his 44hr's go come postseason?
    Last edited by nycericanguy; 12-16-2012 at 09:45 AM.

  2. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    why can't have we have 2 speedy contact guys? Isn't that better than 1?

    We've become obsessed with power... who cares if people say a corner OF should have power?

    Yankees have led the league in HR's every year it seems or been near the top, yet teams like SF who hit 103 hr's last year won it all. We hit 245! We can afford to lose 50-60hr's if we replace that with good, solid fundamental hitters. take away even 75 hr's and we'd still be among the top power teams... that's hot many HR's we hit.. yet it gets us nowhere.

    STL was in the middle of the pack in 2011 in HR's, we led baseball again that year.

    we NEVER led the league in HR's when we had the 90's dynasty... when will people realize HR's don't win titles? Where did Curtis and his 44hr's go come postseason?
    This post is proved correct by the postseason.

    Sadly, itchy and Gardner and a light hitting posada were some of our best postseason hitters the last few years, besides the insane Raul dramatics.
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  3. #288
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    Like I said, I like Ichiro and I think his career will have a revival in NY....there is no doubt that he will be valuable and live up to his contract, but the Yankees still need a right handed power hitter to balance, Gardner, Granderson and Ichiro with a LH Ibanez as well...and I said, "some" power in the previous post.
    Last edited by djall10; 12-16-2012 at 10:21 AM.
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  4. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by djall10 View Post
    Like I said, I like Ichiro and I think his career will have a revival in NY....there is no doubt that he will be valuable and live up to his contract, but the Yankees still need a right handed power hitter to balance, Gardner, Granderson and Ichiro with a LH Ibanez as well.
    Youk & then Arod can do that just fine, heck even Jeter can help there. Look at our lineup and very conservative HR totals, we have MORE than enough power.

    Ichy - 7
    jeter - 10
    Cano - 30
    Tex - 25
    Curtis - 35
    Youk - 10
    Gardner - 5

    thats 120+ hr's out of just 7 players, not counting catcher or DH or bench players... we have plenty of power. heck i'm for trading Curtis for a more solid all around hitter.

  5. #290
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    Youkadoosh hits 20 in our place.
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  6. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    why can't have we have 2 speedy contact guys? Isn't that better than 1?

    We've become obsessed with power... who cares if people say a corner OF should have power?

    Yankees have led the league in HR's every year it seems or been near the top, yet teams like SF who hit 103 hr's last year won it all. We hit 245! We can afford to lose 50-60hr's if we replace that with good, solid fundamental hitters. take away even 75 hr's and we'd still be among the top power teams... that's how many HR's we hit.. yet it gets us nowhere. Is going from say 25 hr's in Swish to 5-10 in Ichiro really going to hurt our lineup when Ichy does so many other things well?

    STL was in the middle of the pack in 2011 in HR's, we led baseball again that year.

    we NEVER led the league in HR's when we had the 90's dynasty... when will people realize HR's don't win titles? Where did Curtis and his 44hr's go come postseason?
    Spot on.

    And some good situational hitting wouldn't hurt either.

  7. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rylinkus View Post
    What extra 9 million? Ichiro is the overpay. We could have a guy like Nate Schierholtz on the cheap. We're not going to spend as much as it would have cost to resign Nick Swisher, imply because we went another direction. This is the new, cheap Yankees.

    And let's be clear, there's a massive downgrade if we look at the last couple of years. Ichiro is a .320 wOBA guy. Swisher in the .360 realm.
    wOBA does not tell the whole story of a player. Not even close. There's no one statistic that can tell you how good a player is, and even if there was, wOBA would certainly not be it.

    I agree it would have been nice if they signed Nate Schierholtz instead, but they didn't, so signing Ichiro was the next best thing IMO. Plus we know he can perform in NY. I was simply talking about the money we save by not signing Swisher, which is $9 million. That money saved can either go towards getting under the cap, which is a foregone conclusion by the way so everybody needs to swallow that pill, or it can go towards acquiring more talent. Personally, I'll take Ichiro and the financial flexibility he brings versus Swisher and his .360 wOBA.
    Last edited by Phoba Rama; 12-16-2012 at 06:06 PM.


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  8. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    why can't have we have 2 speedy contact guys? Isn't that better than 1?

    We've become obsessed with power... who cares if people say a corner OF should have power?

    Yankees have led the league in HR's every year it seems or been near the top, yet teams like SF who hit 103 hr's last year won it all. We hit 245! We can afford to lose 50-60hr's if we replace that with good, solid fundamental hitters. take away even 75 hr's and we'd still be among the top power teams... that's how many HR's we hit.. yet it gets us nowhere. Is going from say 25 hr's in Swish to 5-10 in Ichiro really going to hurt our lineup when Ichy does so many other things well?

    STL was in the middle of the pack in 2011 in HR's, we led baseball again that year.

    we NEVER led the league in HR's when we had the 90's dynasty... when will people realize HR's don't win titles? Where did Curtis and his 44hr's go come postseason?

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  9. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Youk & then Arod can do that just fine, heck even Jeter can help there. Look at our lineup and very conservative HR totals, we have MORE than enough power.

    Ichy - 7
    jeter - 10
    Cano - 30
    Tex - 25
    Curtis - 35
    Youk - 10
    Gardner - 5

    thats 120+ hr's out of just 7 players, not counting catcher or DH or bench players... we have plenty of power. heck i'm for trading Curtis for a more solid all around hitter.

    I am ok with less power if the runs still score.
    Nick

  10. #295
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    I like the direction they have went in with their outfield.. switching Gardner with Grandy and resinging Ichiro who will take over in right. They're also in pursuit of an extra outfielder for the bench. I like the balance and believe they will do well.
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  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoba Chughes View Post
    wOBA does not tell the whole story of a player. Not even close. There's no one statistic that can tell you how good a player is, and even if there was, wOBA would certainly not be it.

    I agree it would have been nice if they signed Nate Schierholtz instead, but they didn't, so signing Ichiro was the next best thing IMO. Plus we know he can perform in NY. I was simply talking about the money we save by not signing Swisher, which is $9 million. That money saved can either go towards getting under the cap, which is a foregone conclusion by the way so everybody needs to swallow that pill, or it can go towards acquiring more talent. Personally, I'll take Ichiro and the financial flexibility he brings versus Swisher and his .360 wOBA.
    wOBA is probably the best individual statistic (along with wRC+) that shows how effective a player is offensively. It doesn't take defense into account but its the best offensive statistic out at the moment.
    Last edited by nyyfan4life; 12-17-2012 at 04:30 AM.
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  12. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyyfan4life View Post
    wOBA is probably the best individual statistic (along with wRC+) that shows how effective a player is offensively. It doesn't take defense into account but its the best offensive statistic out at the moment.
    Even if it's the "best" offensive statistic, it is not as good as looking at all of the other statistics combined and making your judgments based off of that. It also does not consider defense, as you said. If you want to say Swisher is better than Ichiro, don't throw out one statistic and tell me that's why.


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  13. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoba Chughes View Post
    Even if it's the "best" offensive statistic, it is not as good as looking at all of the other statistics combined and making your judgments based off of that. It also does not consider defense, as you said. If you want to say Swisher is better than Ichiro, don't throw out one statistic and tell me that's why.
    Ichiro catches that fly ball double in which the next play jeter fractures his ankle. Nuff said
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  14. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoba Chughes View Post
    Even if it's the "best" offensive statistic, it is not as good as looking at all of the other statistics combined and making your judgments based off of that. It also does not consider defense, as you said. If you want to say Swisher is better than Ichiro, don't throw out one statistic and tell me that's why.
    Obviously, that goes without saying. Still, if you want to do a quick offensive comparison there isn't a better stat than wOBA.
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  15. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyyfan4life View Post
    Obviously, that goes without saying. Still, if you want to do a quick offensive comparison there isn't a better stat than wOBA.
    I don't see how it's all that much better than OPS. Also, the stat doesn't consider steals, so it really doesn't work well when you compare a speed guy against a power guy. Nor does it measure sacrifice bunts, or first to third on singles, defense, or really any of the things that Ichiro does better than Swisher.

    This is why it's a terrible stat when used in this context. If anything, this goes to prove my point that these two are closer than people think talent wise. Take the wOBA, which includes all of the things Swisher does better than Ichiro, and Swisher is +.40. Add the that the fact that Ichiro is a better defender, a better base stealer, better going first to third on singles and first to home on doubles, a better bunter, better at making contact, striking out less and yet not grounding into many double plays, thus making more productive outs. Add all of those things together, and they come pretty damn close to making up for +.40 wOBA points. Thus, my original point, which was that the Yankees saved $9 million while not sacrificing much at all in the way of talent and production remains completely intact, and one wOBA statistic is not going to be good enough to oppose that.


    Derek Jeter is a lucky man.

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