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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKLYNpigeon View Post
    Rams fans hating on the 49ers because their St. Louis Cardinals Crumbled against the San Francisco Giants World Series Champions!
    Well that is just ********.

    Giants fans always make claims like this.

    It could be he is hating on the 49ers because he is a fan of the divisional rival Rams!!

    But no..it always has to do with Giants, one way or another. Any chance you get you have to bring up the WS like everyone cares!!
    Last edited by 76ersai0309; 12-11-2012 at 04:30 PM.


    Go Braves/49ers!

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by odiz View Post
    I dont disagree that guys like Von Miller and JJ Watt are better all around players then Smith but the 5.5 sacks in one game argument is really stupid. Ware had 4 sacks in Week 8 2011, Allen 3.5 in Week 17. Why should someone be penalized for having a good game?

    All 3 of the guys you mentioned (Ware, Smith, Allen) have had 19 games the past 2 years with at least 1 sack. So Smith has been just as consistent and then hes had more big games aswell. Id take Smith over Ware and Allen any day of the week.
    Heck, if you take out the best game from those last 2 yeasr for the 3 guys it comes down to this:

    Aldon 28
    Allen 27.5
    Ware 26.5

    ... so he still has more. And to repeat what you said, all have 19 games with at least 1 sack. And this is after Aldon Smith basically didn't play the first 2-3 games last year.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmsterNat View Post
    How unsurprising. Dude, give up trying to argue with valade. He cut you into little pieces, had you for breakfast, and shat you out.
    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Valade you have totally owned this thread. Well done
    My fanbase is growing.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmoney85 View Post
    problem is he's not even the best defensive player on his team... or 2nd best lol
    Your not wrong, but doesn't mean hes not having an excellent (potential historic) statistical year, which lets face all people want to see is stats. If he breaks the sack record i think hes wins DPOY


    “Just gobble, gobble, gobble, turkey from jive turkey gobblers”

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller74 View Post
    Is there a place on the field where its easy to rush the passer? what kind of comment is this
    It's a lot of gobble gobble turkey from a jive turkey gobbler.


    Slap Hands!

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Someone should ask all those other OLB's in history who couldnt' get this many sacks what their problem was then...



    It's really unfortunate an absolute bum of a player like Aldon Smith has managed to put up a top 10 season sack-wise in NFL history with 3 games to go...

    Here is the list of guys who have had as many sacks in a season as him:

    Michael Strahan
    Jared Allen
    Mark Gastineau
    Reggie White
    Chris Doleman
    Lawrence Taylor
    Derrick Thomas
    Tim Harris

    What a bum to be in such company.
    Oh shut the **** up. Seriously. Are people so insecure?

    It happened on the Bears thread. Because I said they weren't an elite team that meant I thought they were "lucky" and "didn't ahve a good defense" even though I said, verbatim, that they did have a "very good defense."

    And the same here. I've said Aldon Smith is possibly the third best pass-rusher in the NFL. But, you're right.... I think he's a bum. Get off of it. You only make yourself look foolish and insecure.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade>Kobe View Post
    Oh shut the **** up. Seriously. Are people so insecure?

    It happened on the Bears thread. Because I said they weren't an elite team that meant I thought they were "lucky" and "didn't ahve a good defense" even though I said, verbatim, that they did have a "very good defense."

    And the same here. I've said Aldon Smith is possibly the third best pass-rusher in the NFL. But, you're right.... I think he's a bum. Get off of it. You only make yourself look foolish and insecure.
    I think a lot of people are asking that of you. You claimed Aldon isn't as consistent as Jared Allen or DeMarcus Ware despite the fact he has the same number of games with a sack over the last 2 years and has more overall, heck he has more overall when you take out each players best game sack-wise...

    There was some exaggeration on my part but seriously, it's justified considering a guy who has a very real chance at the all-time Sack Record in a Season in his 2nd year in the league (after coming within a sack of breaking the rookie record despite not playing the first 2-3 games), is possibly the 3rd best pass rusher in your eyes.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmsterNat View Post
    How unsurprising. Dude, give up trying to argue with valade. He cut you into little pieces, had you for breakfast, and shat you out.
    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Valade you have totally owned this thread. Well done
    My fanbase is growing.

  7. #127
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    From the stand point of purely rushing the passer I would go with Aldon. However, I'd give the edge to JJ Watt as the most complete pass rusher, I think he has a bigger impact on the game than anyone else. He's close to Aldon in sacks but he leads the league in tackles for a loss and he's top ten in PD which is ridiculous considering the position he plays (I think he's the only non-db in the top 50).

    An argument could also be made for Von Miller but I would put him a close third behind Watt and Smith right now.

    Also I watch a lot more of Smith (since I'm a 49ers fan) than I watch Watt and Miller so its hard to judge really.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade>Kobe View Post
    Norm, it's a pass-rush... period.

    Secondly, I'd say the intelligence and ability to stop pursuing the QB and get a positive result makes one.... a better pass-rusher.

    So, even if we go by your analogy, that they have "quit rushing the passer and now doing something else".... and they make a better play because of it, that makes them a smarter and better pass-rusher. Again, a positive in pass-rushing.

    There's no way around it, Norm,
    We're arguing over the definition of pass rushing. You have yours, I have mine. If we use yours, I agree. If we use mine, I disagree. You're not going to change my definition telling me sorry bro you're wrong.

    Anyways, it's very reasonable to think JJ Watt is better even under my definition. I won't fight anyone on that. I just see it being Aldon.

    I'd take Watt over Aldon pretty easily until he gets busted for "Adderall"

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbeezy View Post
    I'm sorry Wade but stopping the pass rush to bat down a pass is not pass rush anymore the key to that is he STOPs rushing the passer. It would fall into the pass defense category. That is why in the nfl stat book it goes as a pass defensed. He is 8th in the NFL in that. He is the only non-defensive back in the top 40 in.


    What Aldon is doing is more than just because of Justin Smith. The guy is just relentless. This video shows all of his sacks from last season. Its pretty impressive.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6RtCNTic5k
    I totally see what he's saying. If you're asked to rush the passer and you don't even get close but still bat down passes and cause takeaways, I want you rushing the passer for my team. I get it. I just think it's a convoluted definition.

    It's like if 3rd and long and they go draw and you get off your block and make the tackle. Great pass rushing JJ!

    No.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade>Kobe View Post
    You all are trying way too hard. Again, when rushing the passer, even if we go with your analogy and we agree he is no longer "rushing the passer", then his intelligence and ability to stop his pass rush which is failing in order to make a better play as opposed to continuing a failed rush makes him a smarter and, therefore, better, pass-rusher. This is football 101.

    Same with Norm's "screen" objection. If a player regularly cannot read screens and pursues the QB in pass-rush recklessly, getting burned, while another player consistently reads it well, pulls up his pass rush, and makes a better play....

    It would appear that in both those situations, the other player is a worse pass-rusher bc of his lack of intelligence and ability to switch gears and make the right play while in pass rush.

    This whole idea that rushing the passer only applies to trying to beat a block to get the the QB is just plain false. It's a nice attempt to concentrate sexy statistics into one category so we can compartmentalize sexy stats from less sexy stats, but it's still false. Again, nice try, but it is nonsense.
    So what if a guy was very poor at getting to the QB when asked to pass rush but GREAT at getting his hands up to bat a pass down. I'll give you an example.

    Johnny Jolly started for GB in 2010 and had 10 passes defensed. Only one sack. Was he then a very good pass rusher because he stopped to bat passes when he couldn't get there? No. It's a separate talent. He was a horrid pass rusher.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDirt05 View Post
    you show a highlight of smith vs the dolphins back up LT if that is Jack Long doesnt happen sorry to tell you
    the point was that's the kind of stuff he's been doing all season. There was absolutely no holding by any other 49ers defender. He's just been simply beating guys around the edge or bull-rushing them. Your statement remains the most inaccurate post of the 2012 NFL season on PSD.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I think a lot of people are asking that of you. You claimed Aldon isn't as consistent as Jared Allen or DeMarcus Ware despite the fact he has the same number of games with a sack over the last 2 years and has more overall, heck he has more overall when you take out each players best game sack-wise...

    There was some exaggeration on my part but seriously, it's justified considering a guy who has a very real chance at the all-time Sack Record in a Season in his 2nd year in the league (after coming within a sack of breaking the rookie record despite not playing the first 2-3 games), is possibly the 3rd best pass rusher in your eyes.
    No, it isn't justified. It is stupid and it is intentional obfuscation.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by tapajafri View Post
    the point was that's the kind of stuff he's been doing all season. There was absolutely no holding by any other 49ers defender. He's just been simply beating guys around the edge or bull-rushing them. Your statement remains the most inaccurate post of the 2012 NFL season on PSD.
    you showed one Play show every single one his sacks and I bet you find some holdings

    Michael Wacha

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  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKLYNpigeon View Post
    Rams fans hating on the 49ers because their St. Louis Cardinals Crumbled against the San Francisco Giants World Series Champions!
    Quote Originally Posted by brentn2n View Post
    Beat me to it
    wow

    I'm hating on him because yes he is good but Watt is better plain and simple

    Michael Wacha

    5-5, 2.79 Era, 83 So, 1.12 Whip

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller74 View Post
    Is there a place on the field where its easy to rush the passer? what kind of comment is this
    He doesn't play with his hand in the dirt and already has near-full momentum by the time he gets to his blocker (if he has one. The Bears game for example, he came clean a couple times due to incompetence), I think that's the argument. It has merit to it IMO. I don't completely dismiss the guy's talent, because his speed/strength combo is obviously stellar. But do you think he would rack up those sacks playing on the line with his hand in the dirt? He was DE in college, so it's very possible, but it's also possible he might've been a 10-15 sack guy, and not a 20-25 (****, 30 is possible if he goes full bore on AZ). There's just been an explosion of these 3-4 OLB's putting up big sack numbers and basically taking advantage of the bigger and slower OL.

    That's what I attribute a lot of the success of 3-4 rushers to nowadays. Schematically, the league still hasn't caught up/adjusted and a significant percentage of these sacks can be chalked up to beating a RB or TE single, or crashing an empty backfield. It's not that they aren't great pass-rushers but they're really at an advantage in this era, over a down lineman.

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