Pros and Cons: Week 14

[GreenLantern]

And guess what about Fitzgerald: His 56 catches would LEAD the Jets and his 650 yards would be only 51 behind Jeremy Kerley and his 4 TD's would LEAD the Jets.

I am sorry-- How anyone thinks that a QB is going to be successful with Jeremy Kerley, Chaz Schellins, and Marty Gilyard at WR and Jeff Cumberland and Konrad Reuland at TE is beyond my comprehension of understanding?

Well how about when he had Edwards cotchery holmes and smith? Whats your excuse then?

Or last year when he had Plax Holmes Kerley? With or without weps Sanchez has never been good.

So again tell me how any amount of weps are going to magically make Sanchez a good QB?

[Nymfan87]

Yes that is very understandable, but your missing something here... Does better weapons help sanchez become more accurate? Does it help sanchez not make bone head throws? Does it help sanchez and his fumble problem? Answer is no it does not. I respect you as a poster CCU and you know that, but defending sanchez is redundant. We are trying to make the same case every week and the same **** keeps going on.

Sanchez had an open receiver today in Cumberland and he hit him for a big gain. His accuracy would not be as much of an issue if he had some open receivers to throw to. You don't have to be spot on when your receiver has room to go get the ball (although the throw to Cumberland was right on target).

[ccugrad1]

Yes that is very understandable, but your missing something here... Does better weapons help sanchez become more accurate? Does it help sanchez not make bone head throws? Does it help sanchez and his fumble problem? Answer is no it does not. I respect you as a poster CCU and you know that, but defending sanchez is redundant. We are trying to make the same case every week and the same **** keeps going on.

How do you know they won't make him better? And while turnovers are bad, you also have to look at when they happen too. Is a fumble at 0-0 deep down that big of a deal? Is Sanchez's fumble at 0-0 worse than Henne's INT at 17-10 on the final drive today?

[ccugrad1]

Well how about when he had Edwards cotchery holmes and smith? Whats your excuse then?

Or last year when he had Plax Holmes Kerley? With or without weps Sanchez has never been good.

So again tell me how any amount of weps are going to magically make Sanchez a good QB?

But he hasn't been as horrible as you make him out to believe.

[Nymfan87]

Well how about when he had Edwards cotchery holmes and smith? Whats your excuse then?

Or last year when he had Plax Holmes Kerley? With or without weps Sanchez has never been good.

So again tell me how any amount of weps are going to magically make Sanchez a good QB?

Please don't use Plaxico Burress as an example of a weapon. The dude is a red zone threat and absolutely nothing else. He's so terrible that he couldn't even land an NFL job until the Steelers were desperate like three weeks ago. There's also a reason Santonio Holmes got traded for a 5th round pick, and there's also a reason Braylon Edwards has done nothing since leaving NY. Edwards and Holmes were a solid pair of receivers, and Sanchez was massively better in 2010 than he was in 2011, then the Jets started to take away weapons, plus we've had two horrible OC's and a coach who doesn't want the QB to throw the ball ever, regardless of who is under center.

No amount of weapons are going to make Sanchez a good QB (85-90+ qb rating in a non game manager role), but it doesn't mean that our receivers aren't making the problem way worse than it would be otherwise.

[GreenLantern]

How do you know they won't make him better? And while turnovers are bad, you also have to look at when they happen too. Is a fumble at 0-0 deep down that big of a deal? Is Sanchez's fumble at 0-0 worse than Henne's INT at 17-10 on the final drive today?

A turnover is a turnover they are never good...If a QB is prone to turnovers he puts his team in a negative situation no matter if its sanchez or Henne.

Sanchez has 41 turnovers since 2011 thats tied for 1st in the NFL. How is that anywhere close to acceptable?

[scopepts]

How do you know they won't make him better? And while turnovers are bad, you also have to look at when they happen too. Is a fumble at 0-0 deep down that big of a deal? Is Sanchez's fumble at 0-0 worse than Henne's INT at 17-10 on the final drive today?

No its not as big of a deal at 0-0 but today is not the only game sanchez has ever played. There has been a multitude of games where sanchez himself has put the team in a position to lose the game. im not judging sanchez's performance on one game. I look at his career over 4 years, and it shows that sanchez has not progressed in a manner in wich he should have. He is not the answer at QB, and to know we are stuck with him next year is killer...

[scopepts]

Sanchez had an open receiver today in Cumberland and he hit him for a big gain. His accuracy would not be as much of an issue if he had some open receivers to throw to. You don't have to be spot on when your receiver has room to go get the ball (although the throw to Cumberland was right on target).

Ok so your basing your opinion of sanchez on one good throw? He blew atleast three throws today with his wild inaccuracy. How about that one to Kerley on the comeback route? Forgot about that one didnt you..... well i didn't!

[ccugrad1]

No its not as big of a deal at 0-0 but today is not the only game sanchez has ever played. There has been a multitude of games where sanchez himself has put the team in a position to lose the game. im not judging sanchez's performance on one game. I look at his career over 4 years, and it shows that sanchez has not progressed in a manner in wich he should have. He is not the answer at QB, and to know we are stuck with him next year is killer...

But let me ask you this, what have the Jets done to help their QB get better? I mean come on, Marty Gilyard? Jeff Cumberland? Konrad Reuland? Chaz Schelins? I mean my god, 2-11 Kansas City has better weapons than the Jets.

And what would you say if I told you the following QB's have more INT's than Mark Sanchez:

Drew Brees
Andrew Luck
Tony Romo
Philip Rivers
Carson Palmer

And he has the same # as Matt Ryan and Andy Dalton and is only 2 higher than Eli, 3 than Peyton.

And guess what, ALL of those guys have a TON more weapons than Mark Sanchez!!!

Oh yeah, and how come no one brings up Kerley's fumble?

[scopepts]

A turnover is a turnover they are never good...If a QB is prone to turnovers he puts his team in a negative situation no matter if its sanchez or Henne.

Sanchez has 41 turnovers since 2011 thats tied for 1st in the NFL. How is that anywhere close to acceptable?

Exactly...

[GreenLantern]

But he hasn't been as horrible as you make him out to believe.

I dont make him out to be anything.

Sanchez 55% completion career.
Sanchez never broken 80 QBR
Sanchez never broken top 20 Qb in nfl
Sanchez 67 td 64 INT 39 fumbles
Sanchez #1 pick 2009 draft

Maybe our definition of horrible is different. Where has sanchez not been horrible?

Playoffs are the only place sanchez supporters have an argument.
But then again Tebow and Grossman have also won in the playoffs.

[Nymfan87]

Ok so your basing your opinion of sanchez on one good throw? He blew atleast three throws today with his wild inaccuracy. How about that one to Kerley on the comeback route? Forgot about that one didnt you..... well i didn't!

Uh, what was this 3rd "wildly inaccurate" pass that Sanchez threw? The ball to Kerley was overthrown badly and he heaved it over Hill's head, but there was no guarantee an accurate pass would have been caught there.

Yeah, that last sentence definitely said "I'm mad that Sanchez didn't suck today!" Also, your avatar is terrible. It makes McElroy look like a little pouting kid with his hands down in frustration. Although maybe that's just what you look like after the Jets didn't give ol' noodle arm a shot against the Jaguars.

[Nymfan87]

Also, you're basing your opinion of McElroy on 7 throws, only one of which ended up being a completion of more than 6 yards. That's the real lol worthy thing here.

[GreenLantern]

But let me ask you this, what have the Jets done to help their QB get better? I mean come on, Marty Gilyard? Jeff Cumberland? Konrad Reuland? Chaz Schelins? I mean my god, 2-11 Kansas City has better weapons than the Jets.

And what would you say if I told you the following QB's have more INT's than Mark Sanchez:

Drew Brees
Andrew Luck
Tony Romo
Philip Rivers
Carson Palmer

And he has the same # as Matt Ryan and Andy Dalton and is only 2 higher than Eli, 3 than Peyton.

And guess what, ALL of those guys have a TON more weapons than Mark Sanchez!!!

Oh yeah, and how come no one brings up Kerley's fumble?

Not only do all those Qb's throw more passes than sanchez...Know what I will break it down for ya.


Only Qb's on there with more weps is Romo and Brees, One of those Qb's in that list is a rookie and all of those Qb's throw more than Sanchez. But since you went there lets break em down.

Brees 61% 3674 31 td 16 int 92 rtg
Luck 55% 3596 17td 16 int 76 rtg <----Rookie
Romo 67% 3660 19td 15int 90 rtg
Rivers 65% 2969 18td 15int 85 rtg
Palmer 61% 3805 22td 14int 85 rtg
Sanchez 55% 2436 12td 13int 71 rtg

As you can see its not even close. Sanchez is out performed by a rookie.
I didnt even add in fumbles.

Never have I or most Jets fans said that sanchez has weps. We all know he does not. But he has had weps and he still was bad. Holmes is a very good WR Sanchez did nothing with him.

Even with what sanchez has he should not be as bad as he is. We are talking about a #1 draft pick in his 4th year.

All those Qb's you mentioned all make the weps they have better. Sanchez doesnt make anyone better. In fact he makes them worse.

I know the Jets have no choice but to use Sanchez because of the stupid extension , But you cant sit there and act like if you gave him weps he would become a good QB.

At the most..Sanchez could maybe be a Alex Smith. If Alex Smith is not good enough for the 49ers why is sanchez good enough for the Jets?

[Mr. Magoo]

Sanchez problems go beyond weps and a QB coach. No amount of coaching can change a dude who turns the ball over as much as sanchez.

No amount of weps can stop sanchez from fumbling .

no amount of weps can change the fact that sanchez has accuracy issues.

If Sanchez was a 59- 60% passer with half the turnovers then yes an argument could be made that weps and a good O.C. or QB coach would help.

Chances are if Sanchez were on any other team he would be on the bench.

Like I always say what does Fitzgerald do for Skelton and Lindley? Sorry guys but without a QB wr's are nothing.

He's been above 60% passer over his last 8 games. Too many people are judging him on that 4 game stretch when his completion % was under 50%.

Turnovers are tricky and sometimes they just happen. It's the stupid turnovers that he has to cut down on. A good coach can help with that.

Today's fumble was caused by him getting hit in the back while looking to pass. That happens, and you're going to have at least 5 or more of those every year. Every team does, and they're a fact of life. Fumbles in the open field are absolutely unacceptable, and he's had too many of those.

I was watching Jets' game plan on SNY earlier in the year and Cavanugh was talking about the drop back routine he has the guys do. He has them use a 7 step drop. That's 2 more steps than most QB's take in a passing offense.

That means that before Sanchez can even get set and start looking down the field, he's given the defense almost 3 seconds to start their rush. If you've got a good run game or dominant O-Line, that might work. Today, he was rolling out more. That will help him buy time when there's pressure. I've been suggesting they do that with him all year.

Today's fumble actually pissed me off not because it was a bone head play, but because the way things have been going for Sanchez and this team, a play like that can cause a total downward spiral.

The fact that Sanchez's stats were not great bothered me, but the play calling was ultra conservative, and I guess you can get away with that against a bad team. Against Tennessee, the game plan is going to have to be more aggressive or the Jets could lose.

People say they want him to be smart with the ball. So do I. Stupid plays are not acceptable, and Sanchez has made too many of them in his career.

Then when he is safe with the ball, those same people say his numbers weren't impressive enough. The guy's confidence has to be shot, so a conservative game plan to give him low risk passes was probably best.

He made a perfect pass for 37 yards late in the game when the team desperately needed him to air it out. I haven't seen you or any other anti-Sanchez guys acknowledge that. If he didn't make that throw, you guys would have been lighting up the thread with your venom. When he does succeed, it's..."oh great, one pass. Big Deal. Any other QB makes that throw every time."

You are right. An elite WR can't make a bad QB good. A good offensive system with good WR's can make a guy like Matt Cassell look like a pro bowler though.

Since Sanchez is here for another year, wouldn't it be nice to see what he could look like with a better scheme and a couple of good WR's. They should also get a viable backup in the offseason who can step in if Sanchez can't be what we need him to be. We had one this year, then Woody went for headline with Tebow.