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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg42 View Post
    Re-signing Wright was a huge mistake and I'm glad they didn't re-sign Reyes (he never repeated his batting title year).

    We had to sell them while their value was high. We didn't do that. Now we're stuck in 4th place for at least 4-5 years unless Wilpon opens the checkbook.
    just go away. Sure we won't contend for the next couple yrs, but after the next 2 yrs, we still have Wright for 6 more yrs at a very favorable contract considering his market value. It's so obvious the Mets finally made the right decision.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg42 View Post
    You're right. Fans can be emotional and very ignorant.

    But you missed the point. He did, in a way, cave into fan sentiment. The fans didn't want to trade Reyes. I remember how fans even brought "Don't trade Reyes, resign him" signs to games. There were even articles in the NY times and stuff about how the fanbase didn't want Reyes traded. This was a factor to Sandy not trading him that mid-season, because the higher ups already knew they weren't going to re-sign him.

    If the fans had kept their mouth shut, they could have traded Reyes and gotten a great prospect (another Wheeler so to speak). But in that case, the fans used their senseless emotion. This is what upsets me about this fanbase.
    LOL you think the fans kept the Mets from trading Reyes? That's pretty hilarious dude.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    just go away. Sure we won't contend for the next couple yrs, but after the next 2 yrs, we still have Wright for 6 more yrs at a very favorable contract considering his market value. It's so obvious the Mets finally made the right decision.
    The right decision is getting other legit players (like what Delgado, Reyes, and Beltran were for us for example) to play alongside Wright. But because I know Wipon's game, I know that's not his plan. This is why we needed Wright (and Reyes too before) traded for another "Wheeler" type prospect. We need to rebuild. I don't want to see 4th place teams with Wright and a bunch of 30 year old plug-in players (Andres Torres, Kelly Shoppach, Scott Hairston, etc). But you all don't understand.....that's exactly what Wilpon intends on doing for a good 4-5 years. He lost a ton of money in the housing bubble and the Madoff scam. Do you all really think he is going to put any money in this team???? With all this in mind, the right move was to rebuild.

    The Wilpons re-signed Wright to keep the fans from going against the team. They will not re-sign anyone else legit. Again, it will just be the 4th place Met featuring David Wright. I'm not happy about it, therefore I could have cared less about Wright re-signing. Until I see Wilpon getting other legit players to play alongside Wright, the Wright re-signing was irrelevant because it just gives us the same 4th place team we've had the last 3 years.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    LOL you think the fans kept the Mets from trading Reyes? That's pretty hilarious dude.
    You don't remember the fans taking signs to Citifield stating how they shouldn't trade him??? You don't remember the articles all over the NY times and the other papers talking about how the fanbase didn't want him traded???? You don't realize that Wilpon does whatever is possible to play the PR game with you all????

    If it wasn't fans and Wilpon's PR push, then explain, why didn't they trade him???? And don't give me that "they were going to re-sign him" boloney because everyone and their mothers knew they weren't going to re-sign Reyes.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg42 View Post
    You don't remember the fans taking signs to Citifield stating how they shouldn't trade him??? You don't remember the articles all over the NY times and the other papers talking about how the fanbase didn't want him traded???? You don't realize that Wilpon does whatever is possible to play the PR game with you all????

    If it wasn't fans and Wilpon's PR push, then explain, why didn't they trade him???? And don't give me that "they were going to re-sign him" boloney because everyone and their mothers knew they weren't going to re-sign Reyes.
    The FO is supposed to make baseball decisions independent of the fans. Some fans bringing signs about keeping him is not why the Mets kept him. They kept him because the Wilpons feared losing revenue. That is not the fans fault.

    What they should have done is re-sign Reyes. Completely rebuilding is overrated.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    The FO is supposed to make baseball decisions independent of the fans. Some fans bringing signs about keeping him is not why the Mets kept him. They kept him because the Wilpons feared losing revenue. That is not the fans fault.

    What they should have done is re-sign Reyes. Completely rebuilding is overrated.
    Overrated??? Its our best option considering that Wilpon and company isn't going to spend much money.

    So lets say they had resigned Reyes. You do realize that we still would have been in 4th place with no future right???? You also realize that he didn't have that kind of monster season again right????

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg42 View Post
    Overrated??? Its our best option considering that Wilpon and company isn't going to spend much money.

    So lets say they had resigned Reyes. You do realize that we still would have been in 4th place with no future right???? You also realize that he didn't have that kind of monster season again right????
    The Wilpons are the real problem whether or not we rebuild.

    If we rebuild, guys like Harvey, Wheeler, Ike, etc. will all be expensive and they might even leave. We need to try and build a complete team sooner rather than later.

    BTW, it's only been one season since Reyes's great season. He was still a very good player last year.

    If we still had guys like Beltran, Pagan, and Reyes last year with the rotation we had, we might have even made the playoffs. The reason we got rid of those guys is because of the Wilpons. 2/3 of our OF was gone.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    The Wilpons are the real problem whether or not we rebuild.

    If we rebuild, guys like Harvey, Wheeler, Ike, etc. will all be expensive and they might even leave. We need to try and build a complete team sooner rather than later.

    BTW, it's only been one season since Reyes's great season. He was still a very good player last year.

    If we still had guys like Beltran, Pagan, and Reyes last year with the rotation we had, we might have even made the playoffs. The reason we got rid of those guys is because of the Wilpons. 2/3 of our OF was gone.
    Yeah you are talking about 10+ fWAR between those 3 guys last year (subtracted by Duda's fWAR, Tejada and Kirk)

    Certainly would have put us in much better position for a playoff run..
    Last edited by metswon69; 12-12-2012 at 11:45 PM.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg42 View Post

    But the fans don't help either. They think irrationally and don't think in strategy. By being irrational, you allow Wilpon to play you all. If fans had stayed shut back in 2011, Sandy could have probably traded Reyes and gotten back another Wheeler type player. Instead Wilpon needed to play a PR game to keep you fans from getting upset, hence the reason they didn't trade Reyes and acted like they were going to re-sign him and build a great team, etc. And you fans felt for it. I hope you loved those few extra wins in 2011 and Reyes's batting title, because it didn't do anything for me. I was upset we didn't trade him for another Wheeler type player.

    And you fans got fooled again with Wright's re-signing. Wilpon is only going to spend money on Wright and nothing else. I can see this from a mile away. He only re-signed Wright to keep you all happy. From here on out, it's going to be the 4th place Mets featuring David Wright. It will stink, and I'm not going to be going to the games just to see Wright. We're stuck with a Wright in his 30's playing with a 4th place team. We could have traded Reyes and Wright, and had gotten back pieces that could have come up in 2014 to play with Wheeler, Harvey, and the rest of the young pieces we have. It would have been a legit hope.
    Well, I'm with you on Wright. I'm not too sure either they're going to spend much more money after signing him. But you're highly delusional if you're placing the responsibility on the team's failings on the fans.

    Highly delusional and maybe a bit narcissistic. Let me know the next time someone successfully organizes a fan union. Until then, the idea of fans speaking with one voice is a fairy tale.
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  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg42 View Post
    Re-signing Wright was a huge mistake and I'm glad they didn't re-sign Reyes (he never repeated his batting title year).

    We had to sell them while their value was high. We didn't do that. Now we're stuck in 4th place for at least 4-5 years unless Wilpon opens the checkbook.
    I don't think Wright will have a problem living up to the contract.

    With that said, the Mets have never been hampered by a bad contract. They just signed Wright while they swallowed 25m from Santana and 18m from Bay. Theyve wasted a lot of money in the past that I don't want to get into. We're still paying Bobby Bonilla. If David Wright's 20 mill a year gets in the way of a 120 mill payroll, there are still bigger problems.

    I dont like the way they manage the team much like a lot of people do, but lets be realistic. "Unless Wilpon opens the checkbook" ---- He just did open the checkbook!

  11. #146
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    I disagree about opening the checkbook. Wright was already on the team making $16M so the new contract is just an extension of that really. Opening the checkbook would be acquiring talent from outside the organization and spending good money on it.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    I disagree about opening the checkbook. Wright was already on the team making $16M so the new contract is just an extension of that really. Opening the checkbook would be acquiring talent from outside the organization and spending good money on it.
    This is what I disagree with.

    I definitely agree that the team needs to make significant improvements. By no means am I saying that spending money on Wright improves the team.

    What I'm saying is sometimes you need to open the checkbook to keep your own players, and in the grand scheme of things you're spending the same dollar.

    The Mets cant be cheap for letting Reyes walk and then still cheap for signing Wright to a bigger contract.

    And as much as I'd like to see them bring in top talent, I'm content for now letting guys develop. There hasn't been anybody significant on the trade block -- thats not in the last year of their contract -- and there hasnt been a good fit in free agency.

    And on top of that, the current regime is still paying a large bill from the last regime. I think Johan Santana is a great pitcher but in 2011 we started the same amount of games.

    We want them to spend more but they have a lot of dead money right now. I don't like the idea of spending into contention. You get into contention and you spend to get over the top. I want them to build a foundation first.
    Last edited by Sandman; 12-16-2012 at 02:21 AM.

  13. #148
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    ^ I wish you would post more.

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman View Post
    This is what I disagree with.

    I definitely agree that the team needs to make significant improvements. By no means am I saying that spending money on Wright improves the team.

    What I'm saying is sometimes you need to open the checkbook to keep your own players, and in the grand scheme of things you're spending the same dollar.

    The Mets cant be cheap for letting Reyes walk and then still cheap for signing Wright to a bigger contract.

    And as much as I'd like to see them bring in top talent, I'm content for now letting guys develop. There hasn't been anybody significant on the trade block -- thats not in the last year of their contract -- and there hasnt been a good fit in free agency.

    And on top of that, the current regime is still paying a large bill from the last regime. I think Johan Santana is a great pitcher but in 2011 we started the same amount of games.

    We want them to spend more but they have a lot of dead money right now. I don't like the idea of spending into contention. You get into contention and you spend to get over the top. I want them to build a foundation first.
    Well they certainly aren't cheap for re-signing Wright, but I wouldn't say that means they are willing to spend moving forward either. That remains to be seen. As far as waiting to be build a foundation without spending, that is a pipedream as our farm system is not deep at all in terms of positional talent.

    We will need to spend to get into contention and put us over the top too. It's certainly possible with all the money we have coming off the books, so the excuses of not spending need to be over. Otherwise re-signing Wright was a waste.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    Well they certainly aren't cheap for re-signing Wright, but I wouldn't say that means they are willing to spend moving forward either. That remains to be seen.
    You're right, its not a signal that they're willing to start spending again, but its the first move theyve made in the last 2 or 3 years that hasn't been a purge. They've been being cheap for the past few years but I don't think thats permanent. Especially when you got 45 mill tied up in 2 players.
    As far as waiting to be build a foundation without spending, that is a pipedream as our farm system is not deep at all in terms of positional talent.
    Its a huge problem. They need to have a good farm system and have a good organization from top to bottom. Its not just to develop a whole team its to have chips to fill holes when you need to. We don't have to be the Rays, but we need to be more like the Dodgers, Angels and Phillies than the Cubs.
    We will need to spend to get into contention and put us over the top too. It's certainly possible with all the money we have coming off the books, so the excuses of not spending need to be over. Otherwise re-signing Wright was a waste.
    Signing Wright didn't put them in a position where they have to force a move and be stuck with an aging player in 2-3 years. We're about to get a few nice prospects from the Jays for Dickey, so the team looks like they're headed in that direction.

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