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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by topdog View Post
    Yes, records are nice, but I have a hard time calling someone an elite rebounder when his offensive rebounding rate is barely better than O.J. Mayo. That 20% defensive rebound rate is huge, but also very fishy.
    I understand why its hard to belive turner is an elitle rebounder im not sold on that prospect myself but please wacth our team for a few games turner isnt just pulling long rebounds becuase our bigs are missing them like you seem to be implying he is jumping up near the rim and pulling them down more often then not to the point you can hear his hands smack the ball on his way down hes a tough kid and i belive he would be at or above 5 RPG on just about any NBA team.


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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevcballer View Post
    dont get me wrong i argee with u on that but Thad hasn't played SF in a few years now he has gotten bigger and is an undersized PF.
    nothing personal or anything but it always has buged me when people assume he is a SF or assume he can be pluged in there he never had perimeter skills to begin with outside of and average jumper and improves his post skills every year he is a low post scapper a 2nd chance points kind of guy any 3 that was in his game is just about gone.
    Fair enough. My intel is old on Young. I will have to watch come more games as I did like Young as a draft prospect. Maybe I'll wait a little bit until Moultrie gets some more PT - I think he can be a very good player down the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by thevcballer View Post
    I understand why its hard to belive turner is an elitle rebounder im not sold on that prospect myself but please wacth our team for a few games turner isnt just pulling long rebounds becuase our bigs are missing them like you seem to be implying he is jumping up near the rim and pulling them down more often then not to the point you can hear his hands smack the ball on his way down hes a tough kid and i belive he would be at or above 5 RPG on just about any NBA team.
    I'm not saying it doesn't take effort or talent to get those rebounds, I just think it's too much to call it an "elite skill." I know I seem to be attacking ET, but I do think he's a decent player. I'm simply combating this notion that Beal is similar and am stating that I personally did not see him as worthy of the #2 pick. I feel like a better comparison is Derrick Williams and Evan Turner.

  3. #78
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    How wasnt ET worthy of the 2nd pick? he won both POY awards at OSU...

    Derrick Williams was overrated. Dude was almost cut from Zona and overachieved for a year on a good team.

    RETURN OF THE MAC

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  4. #79
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    Playing for the Wizards right now is probably the worst thing right now. Bradley Beal is a rookie and I understand that he is young and he will struggle and have a hard time ajusting to the NBA. The 76ers have a lot of good players on their squad and Evan Turner is finally getting a shot at the wing after the 76ers traded Iggy. The 76ers are also giving Turner a lot of minutes to play too. The Wizards are pretty much forcing Beal to become a good player and giving him 27 minutes a game and letting him start every game over Crawford. Crawford is the Wizards best player at the moment since Wall is out.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2-ONE-5 View Post
    How wasnt ET worthy of the 2nd pick? he won both POY awards at OSU...

    Derrick Williams was overrated. Dude was almost cut from Zona and overachieved for a year on a good team.
    So did J.J. Redick.

    Like I have been saying, he didn't have an elite skill and I did not see anything about him which suggested he would be anything more than a decent player. Derrick Favors, on the other hand, had the stats and elite measurements (size and athleticism) to suggest he could be a very good NBA player.

    Derrick Williams was no more overrated than Turner. Both struggled a bit their first two years (Williams' is still ongoing) adjusting and playing behind an all-star. Their stat lines are not overly dissimilar with Williams seeming to have the overall edge:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...lide02&y2=2013

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by topdog View Post
    So did J.J. Redick.

    Like I have been saying, he didn't have an elite skill and I did not see anything about him which suggested he would be anything more than a decent player. Derrick Favors, on the other hand, had the stats and elite measurements (size and athleticism) to suggest he could be a very good NBA player.

    Derrick Williams was no more overrated than Turner. Both struggled a bit their first two years (Williams' is still ongoing) adjusting and playing behind an all-star. Their stat lines are not overly dissimilar with Williams seeming to have the overall edge:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...lide02&y2=2013
    I like the comparison but i feel Williams will be a force one day he is just the type of player who will need to be traded then given free reign at his natural position to do so and i do believe that position to be the 4.
    I guess what im saying is his ceiling is much greater than Turners.

    As for derrick favors there are reasons we didnt pick him
    1. Brand
    2. Gaping whole at the 2
    3. Turner being the favorite to go number 2 put pressure on the F/O
    4. Favors was raw and seen as a huge risk
    Last edited by thevcballer; 12-11-2012 at 05:26 AM.


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  7. #82
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    Beal will be fine. For the fans of the Wizards' sake I hope it happens before they trade him away because they have been forced to blow up their team again.

    That organization makes the Raptors look like the Lakers for crying out loud.

  8. #83
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    i have spencer hawes and bradley beal in my fantasy team and need to drop one, who do you guys think i should drop?
    RIP JordansBulls

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by topdog View Post
    So did J.J. Redick.

    Like I have been saying, he didn't have an elite skill and I did not see anything about him which suggested he would be anything more than a decent player. Derrick Favors, on the other hand, had the stats and elite measurements (size and athleticism) to suggest he could be a very good NBA player.

    Derrick Williams was no more overrated than Turner. Both struggled a bit their first two years (Williams' is still ongoing) adjusting and playing behind an all-star. Their stat lines are not overly dissimilar with Williams seeming to have the overall edge:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...lide02&y2=2013

    Favors still hasnt shown much in the league...

    Assuming Bynum does come back to the Sixers then Turner is more valuable to the team then Favors would be

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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevcballer View Post
    I like the comparison but i feel Williams will be a force one day he is just the type of player who will need to be traded then given free reign at his natural position to do so and i do believe that position to be the 4.
    I guess what im saying is his ceiling is much greater than Turners.

    As for derrick favors there are reasons we didnt pick him
    1. Brand
    2. Gaping whole at the 2
    3. Turner being the favorite to go number 2 put pressure on the F/O
    4. Favors was raw and seen as a huge risk
    Honestly it's so hard for me to tell what Williams will be once he finally moves on. His size its going to always present a certain sort of difficulty and he'll have to learn to make match-ups favorable to himself by developing his perimeter and driving skills to a much higher level.

    As for the 2010 draft, I guess I just saw it from a different perspective. To me, it was:

    1. Brand can't keep up with the offense and its athletic wings.
    2. Lou can play the 2 or the Sixers find someone who will fit tempo (Turner slows them imo)
    3. Turner was the concensus 2 and the Wolves supposedly wanted him badly. New Jersey was not particularly attached to their pick so maybe something could have happened there
    4. Favors was raw but seemed to have a great attitude and measurements similar to Dwight Howard as a rookie. He was more-or-less the concensus 3rd pick so it's not as big of a risk as other drafts.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by topdog View Post
    Honestly it's so hard for me to tell what Williams will be once he finally moves on. His size its going to always present a certain sort of difficulty and he'll have to learn to make match-ups favorable to himself by developing his perimeter and driving skills to a much higher level.

    As for the 2010 draft, I guess I just saw it from a different perspective. To me, it was:

    1. Brand can't keep up with the offense and its athletic wings.
    2. Lou can play the 2 or the Sixers find someone who will fit tempo (Turner slows them imo)
    3. Turner was the concensus 2 and the Wolves supposedly wanted him badly. New Jersey was not particularly attached to their pick so maybe something could have happened there
    4. Favors was raw but seemed to have a great attitude and measurements similar to Dwight Howard as a rookie. He was more-or-less the concensus 3rd pick so it's not as big of a risk as other drafts.

    Turner is a better athlete than most people realize, and he actually helps the Sixers play more uptempo. The kid grabs an insane amount of rebounds for a guard and pushes the fastbreak better than anyone else on the team. There's a reason why Doug Collins likened him to Magic Johnson when he has the ball in his hands.

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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2-ONE-5 View Post
    Favors still hasnt shown much in the league...

    Assuming Bynum does come back to the Sixers then Turner is more valuable to the team then Favors would be
    That first statement is debatable. He's been limited to essentially the same 20 minutes in the 3 years he's played because of a logjam at PF/C, yet he's improved his stats and PER each year. He's not so much a role player as a player forced into a role.

    There are too many ifs and buts associated with Bynum and Favors in-so-far as who knows if that trade even goes down with Favors in Philly?

    For all we know, the 76ers could quite easily have ended up looking like:

    Favors
    Young
    Iggy
    Mayo (sign summer 2012)
    Holiday

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by topdog View Post
    Yes, records are nice, but I have a hard time calling someone an elite rebounder when his offensive rebounding rate is barely better than O.J. Mayo. That 20% defensive rebound rate is huge, but also very fishy.
    Why should he be trying to hit the offensive glass so hard? He's a perimeter player, if he's in crashing the offensive glass then the Sixers are gonna get beat down the floor by the opposition. There's nothing fishy about his rebounding....he's the best rebounding guard I've ever seen.

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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by pd7631 View Post
    Turner is a better athlete than most people realize, and he actually helps the Sixers play more uptempo. The kid grabs an insane amount of rebounds for a guard and pushes the fastbreak better than anyone else on the team. There's a reason why Doug Collins likened him to Magic Johnson when he has the ball in his hands.
    In years past, I was worried when my Wolves played 2 teams in particular - Philly and Memphis. Why? Because they turned teams over and got up and down the floor.

    I'm not saying Turner is unathletic or that he isn't a good rebounder, but I do feel like their speed and ability to turn guys over has fallen off. Admittedly, I might be pinning too much of that on ET.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by pd7631 View Post
    Why should he be trying to hit the offensive glass so hard? He's a perimeter player, if he's in crashing the offensive glass then the Sixers are gonna get beat down the floor by the opposition. There's nothing fishy about his rebounding....he's the best rebounding guard I've ever seen.
    What's fishy is that the bigs aren't grabbing rebounds. Defensive rebounding numbers are hard to decipher in a stat in that many of them are "freebies" for the defense and also in that ET's man is probably already getting back on defense as guards are supposed to. So, who is heading down to start the early O if not Turner?

    Mind you, I was arguing against rebounding being an "elite skill" of Turner's not that he wasn't good at it.

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