Blue Jays 2012-13 free agency and off-season thread 3.0

[albertajaysfan]

I watched Buherle and JJ pitch down here with the Marlins (long story short, I am Canadian but I live in the US, come often to visit Toronto, yada yada.) I think JJ should be the #2 or #3, depends on his health. Morrow would be the #3 or the #4. That would leave Ricky Romero as the #4 or the #5. Is it worth signing one more guy to a small salary and keep him as competition. You know one of those minor league deal. Kinda how the Yankees made deals with Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Calon? Just someone to be insurance because Ricky was just atrocious. I don't feel comfortable that he regressed a lot. I don't want to splurge on a guy because that makes no sense.

He already have a sixth starter in JA Happ. He is the insurance.

Plus the reason the Yankees were able to sign those guys is because they had a legitimate shot at making the starting rotation with a good camp. Which they accomplished. Our rotation is 6 deep already. We are not an attractive place for aging vets wanting one last kick at the can.

[albertajaysfan]

Pitching in Yankee stadium is difficult as it is because of the homerun potential. CC is overworked as it is. He is going to have arm issues if Girardi continues to overwork him. The Killer B's need to be their future if they want to get young. It is not easy to get good pitching for cheap. The Jesus Montero trade hasn't worked out because Michael Pineda is injured. If Cashman is smart, he goes after a young international guy without a cheap price and develop young guys. What I would like to see is Ricky Romero's role reduced. He was awful last year. Did Morrow get resigned? He pitched bad when I went to a game against the Mariners last September.

Romero's role is getting reduced. He was our opening day starter last year and this year he will be the #5 with a short leash because of the presence of Happ.

Morrow had stellar numbers overall last year and he was signed to a team friendly contract extension I believe last off season.

[Kelly Gruber]

A 1.4 WAR, .689 OPS, 4 stolen bases. This is not the production you expect from an everyday CFer. I could deal with the bad bat IF his defense and speed were outstanding, like you see from many other guys at his position but that's just not the case. If anything, he has more pressure on him now not less. He's on a team expected to not only make the playoffs, but contend for a title. He's gonna have twice as many eyes on him now. I'm a Rasmus fan as I can see the upside he showed before, and he's only 26, but in reality, he's been nothing close to that since. You can't roll the dice when you're going for a title when you have a guy like Gose in the system and a Bourn still available.

So we're in better shape going for a championship run with Gose in CF rather than Rasmus? Can't say I agree with that... Bourn is a fantasy.

Look, I'm not saying he's a great player and we don't need an upgrade, just that at this point, it's smarter to give Rasmus another shot rather than the options that are likely available (I don't consider Bourn a realistic option at this point, but if Rogers wants to blow me away I'm all for it). And that's what is going to happen.

[Halladay]

So we're in better shape going for a championship run with Gose in CF rather than Rasmus? Can't say I agree with that... Bourn is a fantasy.

Look, I'm not saying he's a great player and we don't need an upgrade, just that at this point, it's smarter to give Rasmus another shot rather than the options that are likely available (I don't consider Bourn a realistic option at this point, but if Rogers wants to blow me away I'm all for it). And that's what is going to happen.

If Rasmus duplicates last season, you could certainly make an argument that yes, Gose would likely give you similar production.

[albertajaysfan]

So we're in better shape going for a championship run with Gose in CF rather than Rasmus? Can't say I agree with that... Bourn is a fantasy.

Look, I'm not saying he's a great player and we don't need an upgrade, just that at this point, it's smarter to give Rasmus another shot rather than the options that are likely available (I don't consider Bourn a realistic option at this point, but if Rogers wants to blow me away I'm all for it). And that's what is going to happen.

I completely agree Bourn is a pipedream.

Just saying that is the only way I see Rasmus being moved. Gose needs another year of seasoning as well as another year to see if Rasmus can put it together or if we should cut our losses.

Otherwise moving Rasmus at this point is foolish. We already have a leadoff hitter in Reyes why rush Gose.

[bomber0104]

If Rasmus duplicates last season, you could certainly make an argument that yes, Gose would likely give you similar production.

To me personally, i think its highly unlikely that Gose would be able to outperform Rasmus over a full year.

I can see Gose struggling to crack .230-.240 over a full season. The guy really struggles with contact. Its true that Rasmus has similar issues but he has much more power

Also, I'm still holding hope that we will see more of the Rasmus we saw over that ridiculous 3 week stretch last year. He was basically hammering everything pitchers threw at him

And it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Rasmus has a great season. Guy is still young

[mtf]

And if he continued that pace he would have had a great season. I can play the 'what if' game too.

I didn't play the so-called 'what if' game. I was stating what happened. But good for you, it was almost clever if it wasn't completely random and non-applicable.

Point is, for a CFer, his production is not awful. His defence is good and I remember him hitting the ball hard and on a line a lot, it just didn't fall in anywhere. He wasn't easy to acquire and is still just 26 with a lot of baggage around his early career. He gets a chance for a true fresh start without a lot of focus on him. He can just go out and play ball this year, not be expected to break-out and carry the team. At this point it's in the Jays' best interest to give him another season. And that's just what they're going to do.

Last year the attention was on players like Brett Lawrie, Jose Bautista, Ricky Romero and Brandon Morrow. Later in the season it became Edwin Encarnacion and Drew Hutchison quite a bit. There's really no one who was talking about him for a significant amount of time in the media. I don't really think you can claim another change of scenery, so to speak (the landscape of the roster), will cure him again. At this point, the only reason for legitimate optimism with him is a new hitting coach.

With good defence and in a crappy year for most of the Blue Jays, he was in the top 10 for AL CFers in most offensive catergories.

Wow really? Top 10 out of 14 American League Center Fielders? If that were even true (it isn't) it still really wouldn't be a persuasive argument in Rasmus' favor! Which categories were you talking about anyway? It seems the only one where he fits that really awful criteria is home runs. It certainly wasnt BABIP, wOBA, wRC+, fWAR, SB.

I wasn't even initially saying that I want to run Rasmus out of town, but this false cheerleading for the guy that goes on with fans like you seems really nonobjective.

[Wade n Fade]

The team still wants to see what Rasmus can do. Gose has great speed. Rasmus was brought over in huge trade at the time. So you want to see that investment pay off. Bourn is not a good idea. After all the major trades, the roster's salary went up. Now, Born would cost a first rounder too because of the compensation component. Not worth it. If you want a cheap OF, Hairston is there, but is he better than Rasmus? I say no. Rasmus is better than Gose imo, and he should be ahead of Gose in most situations.

[Halladay]

To me personally, i think its highly unlikely that Gose would be able to outperform Rasmus over a full year.

I can see Gose struggling to crack .230-.240 over a full season. The guy really struggles with contact. Its true that Rasmus has similar issues but he has much more power

Also, I'm still holding hope that we will see more of the Rasmus we saw over that ridiculous 3 week stretch last year. He was basically hammering everything pitchers threw at him

And it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Rasmus has a great season. Guy is still young

About all Rasmus did last year was put up some nice home run totals(for his position). When you take a hard look at the numbers he had a massive spike in 2010 with the Cards with a .354 BAPIP. In 2011 it went down to a .267 then last year with a .259. His UZR has been -6.7,-8.8 and 0 the last 3 years as well, not exactly what you look for in a center fielder known for good defense. I like Rasmus as much as anyone but two bad years in a row will have me wondering what this guys gonna be, mid 20s or not.

[Kelly Gruber]

I didn't play the so-called 'what if' game. I was stating what happened. But good for you, it was almost clever if it wasn't completely random and non-applicable.

"If it weren't for a few really great weeks in the middle of the season..." ie if Rasmus didn't hit well for a few weeks, it would have been a terrible season, that is the "what if game" to a T my friend...

Your words.

It's grat to have questions about the guy, I do to, but at this point what are you really going to do? It's not as if I'm saying the guy has been amazing and being some kind of cheerleader, just that you guys are wasting your time dreaming about an upgrade. He's here, they paid the price to get him and there is still a lot of time for him to put it together. Yes, I realize he hasn't been great, but it's like you guys think great CFers just fall off trees or something...

But go ahead, order your Michael Bourn jersey... You can wear it while you watch Colby Rasmus play CF next year, because it's quite obvious Jays management agrees with me on this one.

[bomber0104]

About all Rasmus did last year was put up some nice home run totals(for his position). When you take a hard look at the numbers he had a massive spike in 2010 with the Cards with a .354 BAPIP. In 2011 it went down to a .267 then last year with a .259. His UZR has been -6.7,-8.8 and 0 the last 3 years as well, not exactly what you look for in a center fielder known for good defense. I like Rasmus as much as anyone but two bad years in a row will have me wondering what this guys gonna be, mid 20s or not.

I dont care much for UZR ratings.. All I know if that from what I saw last year, he was a pretty good outfielder defensively

[Halladay]

I dont care much for UZR ratings.. All I know if that from what I saw last year, he was a pretty good outfielder defensively

I'll trust UZR over your eyes, no offense.

[bomber0104]

I'll trust UZR over your eyes, no offense.

It doesn't take a genius to recognize that Rasmus played a pretty good CF last year.. I can't say that I know how UZR is calculated.

If he struggled with anything it was his below average arm and maybe a few lapses in concentration.

But there is nothing wrong with his range

[Halladay]

It doesn't take a genius to recognize that Rasmus played a pretty good CF last year.. I can't say that I know how UZR is calculated.

If he struggled with anything it was his below average arm and maybe a few lapses in concentration.

But there is nothing wrong with his range

He does the same things we heard from Cards fans when he came here. A meh arm and he takes weird routes to the ball. If not for his speed he'd look pretty horrendous.

[bomber0104]

He does the same things we heard from Cards fans when he came here. A meh arm and he takes weird routes to the ball. If not for his speed he'd look pretty horrendous.

and if EE didn't have a bat he'd be a terrible player.. i dont see your point

What i'm saying is Rasmus is far from a bad defender