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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddler The Gr8 View Post
    they arent mutually exclusive. both points are right, but I think it was a little bit more of TMath's point. alot of teams were garbage offensively last year with the lockout taking up training camp
    ya there truth to all of these things. but there looks to be another ingredient. something has changed in that locker room. whether it's the lack of vets, or something is causing the team to tune Casey out, it doesn't look like they are buying in defensively like they did last year at all.

    they shouldn't have changed their style of play although i understand why they did. if you're going to make Lowry and Derozan your primary options you should be playing the guys that best compliment that style of play even if it disappoints the holdovers.
    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 12-08-2012 at 12:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  2. #17
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    there'll be a lot of questions to answer last night. I only watched the game in spurts after the first quarter, but I do remember one stretch when the raps started to go down by like 15 (63-50 or something like that), and I just thought ok, here comes a timeout, reset, maybe make a little run back. Only no timeout was called. Casey was letting them play through it. But our team didn't look like they were organized, they gave up a wide open 3 on piss poor rotation. That spoke volumes about the current culture of this team.

    It said Casey's run out of ideas. It said maybe the players have tuned him out and he's gonna let them do it all himself. It said if you guys don't care about what's going on out there than neither do I.

    It was a bad scene. I turned it off at that point, I could not bear to watch.

  3. #18
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    I knew that the "running more/up the pace" crap wouldn't work. The Raptors were a FG%/contest your shot defense last year like Chicago, not a turnover/ballhawking defense like Miami or OKC. We don't have the ballhawks on the wings to play the up-tempo style, and it's ****ing up our transition D in the process. Plus, I don't know if it suits our personnel. DD and Ross can run, as can Amir, (Lowry picks his spots) but it doesn't really suit anyone else.

    There's so much wrong with this team right now


  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TO Rapz View Post
    We played very well in the 1st Q. In fact, we had a 10 point lead in the first Q when it was like 24-14 or something, then we subbed off some guys, and the unit with Calderon, Ross, Pietrus, Bargnani and Gray ****ed us up. Once Utah caught up by the end of the 1st Q, they kicked our *** in the 2nd Q, and never looked back.
    This is our biggest problem. We can keep up with other teams for some time, but when they change up their offense and make a crazy 3 minute run and take a double digit lead they pretty much run away with it. Then we are left all game trying to bring it down. This team has no ability to adjust to changing offenses and that has to be blamed on the coach. That's the main thing you teach your players, how to make adjustments when needed.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddler The Gr8 View Post
    I knew that the "running more/up the pace" crap wouldn't work. The Raptors were a FG%/contest your shot defense last year like Chicago, not a turnover/ballhawking defense like Miami or OKC. We don't have the ballhawks on the wings to play the up-tempo style, and it's ****ing up our transition D in the process. Plus, I don't know if it suits our personnel. DD and Ross can run, as can Amir, (Lowry picks his spots) but it doesn't really suit anyone else.

    There's so much wrong with this team right now
    agreed. i don't regret the changing the offensive hierarchy to suit the change in personnel, but i don't like the decision to push the pace. the style of play responsible for our overachieving last year should have been left in place. i imagine they wanted to try and suit Derozan/Lowry better.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  6. #21
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    then again, if you are hitching your wagon to Derozan/Lowry does it make sense to try and play a style that you think suits them, or do you go with what worked for the other 10? tough call really...
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  7. #22
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    I wouldn't fully call Lowry a transition PG though. He can go, but he can also play in the half court. Whereas DD clearly needs to run to get buckets

    I just think that they were disappointed with the offensive stats last year and thought "Oh, let's push the pace and run more to get more pts", but **** doesn't work like that. You can't just run just to run....


  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    then again, if you are hitching your wagon to Derozan/Lowry does it make sense to try and play a style that you think suits them, or do you go with what worked for the other 10? tough call really...
    The problem is that neither Lowry or Derozan are superstars that can take over the game. It makes more sense to have stability as a team and then get your main guys to try and adjust their game to a system that may not suit them that well initially. Casey should have known problems like this could happen when changing the system.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenzo400 View Post
    The problem is that neither Lowry or Derozan are superstars that can take over the game. It makes more sense to have stability as a team and then get your main guys to try and adjust their game to a system that may not suit them that well initially. Casey should have known problems like this could happen when changing the system.
    i agree. i'm not saying that the style of play should have been changed, only saying that i can see the thought process. i agree they should have integrated the new players into the old system first, and then evaluated later whether it was the right system for the long term.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Rock Shaqs View Post
    What are you talking about???? Lol Lowry has been disappointing lately? Seriously??? Maybe he didn't play that great in Utah but he's been their best player almost every single game.
    i don't get how they can blame Lowry out of all the people, he does take stupid shots here and there and he doesn't run back sometimes but does so many good things that don't even show in the box score

  11. #26
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    I'm glad I had to work and wasn't able to watch last night's game save for a few minutes. With that said, the only thing I can suggest is to tear everything down and rebuild; preferably at season's end in order to give OKC the lowest pick possible.

    Let Jose expire or trade him, trade Bargnani and Kleiza, while also amnestying Amir if necessary; that would be a good start. If we luck into a top 3 pick this year, that's fine, as we'll be in the running for Bazz/Noel. But, at that point we'd better tank HARD next year to ensure the best chance of landing Wiggins and not giving up our pick in a strong draft.

    As of right now though, move forward with Lowry, Val, Ed, Ross, DeMar and unfortunately Fields.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddler The Gr8 View Post
    they arent mutually exclusive. both points are right, but I think it was a little bit more of TMath's point. alot of teams were garbage offensively last year with the lockout taking up training camp
    I disagree. I think players knew what their roles were last season. This season? Not so much.

  13. #28
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    calderon can't shoot anymore, i dont know what it is bit hes lost his touch, i've always been against trading him, bu ti think it is time
    Blue Jays 2013 world champs, just watch

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freakazoid View Post
    I disagree. I think players knew what their roles were last season. This season? Not so much.
    that's another good point. this team is definitely struggling to find an identity.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwrighter View Post
    The scary thing about getting rid of Colangelo is that Stefanski will probably take his place as GM. Here's to hoping that he can build a legitimate team.



    Good luck with that ... Look up his track record when he was gm of the 76ers ... He was horrible! I could never understand why we hired him!

    If anything he could have influenced BC in his dumb moves!

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