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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    wow dude... he is just pointing out what happened... no need to go postal...

    You and Crooner don't need to constantly defend Pau... it isn't that Pau sucks or isn't any good anymore... its simple... his skills as a 4 are not a fit for Dantoni's system.

    He needs to be playing Center for someone else so he can go back to his natural position. The idea that he would be successful in a line up with a 5 who only plays in the post is naive and quite frankly borderline idiotic. This has been the case the last 3 years.

    This problem is compounded by hiring a guy like Dandouche who only wants to speed up the game... Pau's skills don't fit and he is the best trade option the Lakers have to improve the team because the FO didn't finish the job this summer by going out and getting more young bodies... how good would blatche be for us if we had signed him? How easy would that make it to trade a guy like Hill for some pieces?

    Again, the primary blame for the current fiasco resides in the FO for

    1. Not getting the right roster
    2. Hiring TWO morons to coach the team

    Do i think things will change? Nope, because Jimbaco doesn't have the balls to do what really needs to happen. What is that you ask... simple and it has even been proffered by Crooner at different times and i totally agree...

    SIMPLE BLOW UP STRATEGY

    1. Sit down with Dwight and tell him this is HIS team and that major changes are coming

    2. Trade Pau for expirings to someone like Milwaukee wherein we get a first and the corresponding $19 million for Pau is off the books at the end of this season

    3. Trade Artest and a second for an expiring or trade exception this year

    4. Trade Nash for an expiring and a first round pick (someone will do it)

    5. AMNESTY KOBE....

    6. Resign D12

    7. Sign CP3

    8. Fill roster out with Dantoni type players on one year deals

    9. Pick up another star via trade in 2013/2014 or wait for 2014 FA market


    Bottom line... unless Mitch has a couple of miracles up his sleeve there is no way we are competing this year as the roster is currently configured.
    This is a solid argument for blowing up the team now as a means of ensuring that D12 sticks around. And I have to say that I agree with the unstated premise: keeping D12 in the future is more important to the franchise than making Kobe happy in the present.

    But....

    I don't necessarily assume that the two are mutually exclusive. One of the things that bothers me about piling on Pau is that he's clearly not being used to advantage. The argument is that D'Antoni will never do that because of his system, but I don't buy that argument -- or at least I'd like to think that "offensive geniuses" are smarter than some idealized philosophy of basketball.

    If D'Antoni really is a great coach -- and if he senses the opportunity he has -- then he'll do what all great coaches do: modify the offense and defense to feature the skills of the players on the team. Maybe LA doesn't have ideal players for run-and-gun, but it's still got good players, and a really great coach would make the most of them.

    So in the end I see the next few months as a real referendum on D'Antoni. Can he figure out how to make the most of what he has? We obviously won't know that until everyone's healthy. If things look ugly at the end of February I wouldn't have any problem with focusing on D12's future.

  2. #77
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    Honestly I was psyched when Dant'oni arrived, but at this point I am starting to feel underwhelmed and degraded, like I've hooked up with a super hotty who is terrible at giving BJs or something. Dan'toni is like that bitey hoe that just won't suck it right for some weird reason.

    Seriously, why did we not just keep Mike Brown? He was getting it together. He was probably doing so bad because he was probably hearing rumors and pressure everyday. He was probably under immense pressure. If Lakers would've stuck by him, he would've found his footing and brought the ship around eventually.

    I will say I agree with some of Dan'toni's very honest comments about the team's lackluster effort and unwillingness to fight for the win and to execute with the crisp urgency of a San Antonio for example, or to run the court with the ferocity of a Miami or an OKC.

    Da'ntoni is basically calling them wussies with a p for the way they are playing, and he is actually totally right. It's something we've all seen for years with the Lakers at times: Kobe going out and battling like a warrior, and everybody else slunking around, going through the motions. From Luke Walton, to Odom, to Bynum, we've probably seen as many crap Laker games in the past 4 years as we've seeen awesome ones.

    I can't figure out why the team is playing so mediocre right now, but I have a feeling Dant'oni will figure it out. He is just going to let them hit rock bottom and find out who has character on that team. Honestly he is kind of protecting Pau right now, and might be holding Nash out a bit extra, because he wants to play this out and not damage Pau's confidence or trade value.

  3. #78
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    right now ive only seen good play and hustle from Kobe, Hill and Meeks.
    the rest of guys are just not playing like they want to be on the floor.
    makes me wonder if they are rebelling to Mike-D hiring because i know D12 and others wanted Phil Jackson.
    Jim Buss needs to let people that know basketball (Magic Johnson) run this aspect of the team.
    Last edited by strokeman; 12-10-2012 at 04:10 PM.
    Eagles offseason:
    [] Hire new coaching staff
    [] Restructure Mike Vick
    [] Sign/draft Starting OLineman
    [] Sign/draft physical cornerbacks
    [] Sign/draft Starting Safeties
    [] Sign/draft Big WR
    [] Sign veteran Safety

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by GailGoodrich View Post
    This is a solid argument for blowing up the team now as a means of ensuring that D12 sticks around. And I have to say that I agree with the unstated premise: keeping D12 in the future is more important to the franchise than making Kobe happy in the present.

    But....

    I don't necessarily assume that the two are mutually exclusive. One of the things that bothers me about piling on Pau is that he's clearly not being used to advantage. The argument is that D'Antoni will never do that because of his system, but I don't buy that argument -- or at least I'd like to think that "offensive geniuses" are smarter than some idealized philosophy of basketball.

    If D'Antoni really is a great coach -- and if he senses the opportunity he has -- then he'll do what all great coaches do: modify the offense and defense to feature the skills of the players on the team. Maybe LA doesn't have ideal players for run-and-gun, but it's still got good players, and a really great coach would make the most of them.

    So in the end I see the next few months as a real referendum on D'Antoni. Can he figure out how to make the most of what he has? We obviously won't know that until everyone's healthy. If things look ugly at the end of February I wouldn't have any problem with focusing on D12's future.
    fair enough...

    I am not for blowing it up right now and do believe we should assess things once players come back and also see what becomes available via the trade market.

    Do i think it will matter... nah

    why?

    1. our roster is thin and we will continue to experience injuries (jamison the latest). As a result, i believe we will be in a continual what if or just wait til so and so gets back mode.

    2. Dantoni will not adjust... just like he didn't in New York... he is fundamentally a stubborn person. Why do i think this? Because about 3 years ago i sat in the White Plains airport and talked to him about basketball for 90 minutes mainly focusing on how his system works and whether it could really be effective in the playoffs... All i can say is that he was passionate about what he believed bordering on arrogance but the one take away i had was that he was more interested in proving his system could win than just winning.

    Again, the FO didn't finish the job last summer and missed out on alot of guys that could have been had for the vets minimum

    I don't see Mitch snaring a miracle at this point because most teams aren't going to help us out of our mess when we can't really offer picks... that has always been his ace in the hole... it no longer exists.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    fair enough...

    I am not for blowing it up right now and do believe we should assess things once players come back and also see what becomes available via the trade market.

    Do i think it will matter... nah

    why?

    1. our roster is thin and we will continue to experience injuries (jamison the latest). As a result, i believe we will be in a continual what if or just wait til so and so gets back mode.

    2. Dantoni will not adjust... just like he didn't in New York... he is fundamentally a stubborn person. Why do i think this? Because about 3 years ago i sat in the White Plains airport and talked to him about basketball for 90 minutes mainly focusing on how his system works and whether it could really be effective in the playoffs... All i can say is that he was passionate about what he believed bordering on arrogance but the one take away i had was that he was more interested in proving his system could win than just winning.

    Again, the FO didn't finish the job last summer and missed out on alot of guys that could have been had for the vets minimum

    I don't see Mitch snaring a miracle at this point because most teams aren't going to help us out of our mess when we can't really offer picks... that has always been his ace in the hole... it no longer exists.
    I agree that your bold quote is worrisome. It reminds me of Paul Westhead, and that's obviously not a good comparison. (For you younguns, Westhead was D'Antoni before D'Antoni was D'Antoni.)

    I also think, however, that the Lakers have an ace in the hole, and that's Steve Nash. This is not just a smart ballplayer, blah blah blah, this is the guy who will be putting D'Antoni's system to work, a guy who has a long and good history with D'Antoni, and a guy who wants to win a ring for himself.

    If there's anybody on the entire planet who could go to D'Antoni and say, "Look, if we do x, y and z it's not really what we ran in Phoenix, but on this team it gets us more wins," I think D'Antoni listens. What are his alternatives? A full-blown mutiny led by Nash would effectively cost him his job, and Nash is going to be the one making a lot of the on-court decisions.

    So many unknowns, but if Nash can fully recover I think there's a serious upside to having him on the court. And he's had a full month to really see with his own eyes which players can do what when they're called upon.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by GailGoodrich View Post
    I agree that your bold quote is worrisome. It reminds me of Paul Westhead, and that's obviously not a good comparison. (For you younguns, Westhead was D'Antoni before D'Antoni was D'Antoni.)

    I also think, however, that the Lakers have an ace in the hole, and that's Steve Nash. This is not just a smart ballplayer, blah blah blah, this is the guy who will be putting D'Antoni's system to work, a guy who has a long and good history with D'Antoni, and a guy who wants to win a ring for himself.

    If there's anybody on the entire planet who could go to D'Antoni and say, "Look, if we do x, y and z it's not really what we ran in Phoenix, but on this team it gets us more wins," I think D'Antoni listens. What are his alternatives? A full-blown mutiny led by Nash would effectively cost him his job, and Nash is going to be the one making a lot of the on-court decisions.

    So many unknowns, but if Nash can fully recover I think there's a serious upside to having him on the court. And he's had a full month to really see with his own eyes which players can do what when they're called upon.

    its fine to be optimistic... i just don't think it is realistic... and while i definitely think there is merit in your logic when it comes to Dantoni vis a vis Nash i just don't see Nash ever being 100% this year... 38 year olds don't quickly or fully comeback from a broken leg in 2-3 months... especially ones that have to run up and down a basketball court and cut quickly...

    There is alot more at stake this year than winning a chip... re-signing D12 has to be the #1 priority. Anything that takes away from that goal needs to be squashed.

    as for westwood i cringe when i hear his name uttered

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    its fine to be optimistic... i just don't think it is realistic... and while i definitely think there is merit in your logic when it comes to Dantoni vis a vis Nash i just don't see Nash ever being 100% this year... 38 year olds don't quickly or fully comeback from a broken leg in 2-3 months... especially ones that have to run up and down a basketball court and cut quickly...

    There is alot more at stake this year than winning a chip... re-signing D12 has to be the #1 priority. Anything that takes away from that goal needs to be squashed.

    as for westwood i cringe when i hear his name uttered
    ... wood ... head ... Is that Freudian ? Or is a cigar just a cigar ?

  8. #83
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    Hey vinylman welcome back. Missed your posts dude. Back on topic... If we can get Cp3 I'd be all for a blowup. The one thing that can halt this plan though is how the clippers perform. Barring injury I think the can get to the WCF. If they go to say 6-7 games against the spurs or okc, I just find it difficult to believe that Cp3 would leave. I dunno I could be wrong but I think the clips are a better team than last year. Still very young and its still LA.

    Man how much I wish that Pau + Odom for CP3 deal went through.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by shep33 View Post
    Hey vinylman welcome back. Missed your posts dude. Back on topic... If we can get Cp3 I'd be all for a blowup. The one thing that can halt this plan though is how the clippers perform. Barring injury I think the can get to the WCF. If they go to say 6-7 games against the spurs or okc, I just find it difficult to believe that Cp3 would leave. I dunno I could be wrong but I think the clips are a better team than last year. Still very young and its still LA.

    Man how much I wish that Pau + Odom for CP3 deal went through.
    He just got banned again like an hour ago.

    What bad timing shep!

  10. #85
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    2004 year we started out 9-14 (albeit with Shaq out). I dont know if Nash has as big of an impact as Shaq did, but Nash certainly has a big impact when D'Antoni is the coach. We obviously ended that year losing to the Pistons in disappointing fashion, but I would be happy losing in the finals this year. I'd be happy making the western conference finals, the way this is going.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by gr824 View Post
    ... wood ... head ... Is that Freudian ? Or is a cigar just a cigar ?
    I gotta give the guy a pass. Every time I think "Westhead" my brain spits out "Westfall".

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by KB-Pau-DH2012 View Post
    He just got banned again like an hour ago.

    What bad timing shep!
    Ah man lol. Well I'll get him next time

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by shep33 View Post
    Ah man lol. Well I'll get him next time
    Honestly shep, you have to talk to some of these mods. Us Laker fans always get our hands caught in the cookie jar and get banned, but they never catch or atleast warn or infract the ones that put the cookie jar there in the first place (aka the instigators).

    naps was instigating and baiting, and V-Man took the bait and insulted him, and just got banned again.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimos21 View Post
    2004 year we started out 9-14 (albeit with Shaq out). I dont know if Nash has as big of an impact as Shaq did, but Nash certainly has a big impact when D'Antoni is the coach. We obviously ended that year losing to the Pistons in disappointing fashion, but I would be happy losing in the finals this year. I'd be happy making the western conference finals, the way this is going.
    Wrong season ... That sloppy opening actually occurred in the 2002-2003 season and the team started even worse than you indicate [ 9-15 ] ...

    As of Christmas that season, the Lakers were 11-19, before finally turning things around to be .500 by the first week of February [ 23-23 ]. The team closed the regular season 50-32 ...

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by KB-Pau-DH2012 View Post
    Honestly shep, you have to talk to some of these mods. Us Laker fans always get our hands caught in the cookie jar and get banned, but they never catch or atleast warn or infract the ones that put the cookie jar there in the first place (aka the instigators).

    naps was instigating and baiting, and V-Man took the bait and insulted him, and just got banned again.
    Yeah maybe I'll put a word in with some mods. I have no power there but I can at least try

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