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  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Starks View Post
    Of course it's true who's denying that? But fair enough you're thinking maybe 17 and 8. I doubt that but ok. I don't see things getting easier for him in the 2nd half, I would venture to say it will get harder.

    Im thinking more like 13 and 6 with a poor shooting percentage and high TO rate. Feel free to quote me.......
    It's going to get harder knowing how to get to the rim? he's been driving on some pretty impressive bigs. His 3 pt. shot gets mediocore watch out, b/c that's when his first step will hurt defenses. This is all adjustment periods.

    I'm not going to quote you. I'll just say no way he ends this season under 40% shooting.
    when they forget what Kevin Long saids

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  2. #392
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    This thread is such a stupid f'ing joke. It reflects the low IQ of the OP, and nothing more.

    Let's take Rubio's stat line:

    23% FG, 0% 3 PT FG, 4 pts, 4 apg.

    Cheryl Miller in her prime could've posted better numbers in the nba. Obviously, Rubio is the dumbest draft pick ever.

    If you look at his numbers RIGHT NOW, he's obviously a horrific shooter, as evidenced by his 36% FG% last season, and his 23% FG% this season.

  3. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by jam View Post
    This thread is such a stupid f'ing joke. It reflects the low IQ of the OP, and nothing more.

    Let's take Rubio's stat line:

    23% FG, 0% 3 PT FG, 4 pts, 4 apg.

    Cheryl Miller in her prime could've posted better numbers in the nba. Obviously, Rubio is the dumbest draft pick ever.

    If you look at his numbers RIGHT NOW, he's obviously a horrific shooter, as evidenced by his 36% FG% last season, and his 23% FG% this season.
    if you think Cheryl could have played in the NBA then you're as clueless as the OP.

    BTW, Rubio barely shoots and he knows that isn't his strength.

    He's better than Lin as well.

  4. #394
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    Two words joe johnson

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    Two words... Nachos
    Your perception of the obvious is OUTSTANDING!!!


  6. #396
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    Definitely not. He got mor emoney than he deserved but at the same time, he's very young and very inexperienced and will get a good amount better imo. Even this year he's shown flashes of brilliance.

    His PPG is down from 14.6 to 12.0, but his rebounds per game are up, his steals per game are up, his rebounds per game are up, his turnovers per game are down, his assists per game are up. He's playing well, and is just gonna get better. He's shooting at 43.2% right now which is very respextable.


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  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    I LOL'd at 'TOs caused by not having a legit post option'

    Try harder next time.

    A post option would limit his game and make him more of a jump shooting PG ala Deron Williams playing with Lopez. Theres not room for his penetration, which is his bread and butter, with a 7 footer and his defender clogging the paint.

    Lin has come back to life but I agree with the dude who said hes in tier 3. Thats not a big diss. Putting him over guys like Curry, Holiday after the start he had to this season, based on the last 5-6 games, is somewhat of a joke.

    He's really not a bad defender but he does tend to go underneath every single screen and gets burned all the time for it.
    i can agree with most of this . the one thing i will say is you can pretty much chalk up 1 TO per game on an entry pass to asik in the post that asik just cant handle. most bigs will get that pass.
    The Most Epic Thread EVER
    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Yea what is he thinking not wanting to drive next to or near drunk people. I have never met a more sheltered scaredy cat. As a hobby i find 10-15 homeless guys and give them lots of alcohol and play bumper cars all day but im normal.

  8. #398
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    Lin sucks, he's so overrated. The nights he puts up big numbers is because the guards put more pressure on Harden and aim to force Lin to beat them. He's a media darling just like Tebow and I'm tired of it. If he wasn't Asian he'd be considered garbage. It's funny what the race card can do for anyone. Get over it... If he were any race other then Asian he'd be riding the bench.

  9. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Starks View Post
    Thinking Lin is a quality pg isn't subjective also? Objectively his overall numbers are mediocre and his defense is poor and inconsistent.
    His offensive numbers are mediocre for a starting PG. They're far from mediocre for a player with 55 starts, 94 total games and 2200 minutes under their belt.

    2,200 minutes, you DO realize how few minutes that is? His first 29 games he averaged 9.8 minutes per game. So in terms of actual minutes played, you're talking about a rookie.

    John Wall played 2,602 minutes in his FIRST season.
    Russell Westbrook played 2,670 minutes in his FIRST season.
    Landry Fields played 2,540 minutes in his FIRST season.

    As for "poor defense" what are you basing that on? The statistics don't say "poor" defense.

    Hoopsdata has Jeremy Lin at a 2.46 Defensive Efficiency (8th among PG's in the NBA).

    Basketball Reference rates him at a 106 DRtg (on par with Courtney Lee).

    According to Synergy Sports,

    Jeremy Lin...

    0.84 PPP allowed overall, 149th in the NBA
    0.76 PPP allowed in Isolation, 68th in the NBA
    0.76 PPP allowed against PnR Ball Handlers, 73rd in the NBA

    In terms of other details...

    1.80 steals per game, 7th amongst PG's, 2.66/48 (10th)
    0.43 blocks per game, 6th amongst PG's, 0.64/48 (6th)
    3.8 rebounds per game, 8th amongs PG's, 5.6/48 (8th)

    Oh, and while we're at it, THIS season...

    5 double/doubles. 9th amongst PG's.
    12.0 ppg, 25th amongst PG's
    6.3 apg, 15th amongst PG's

    So really, not sure exactly where you get the "poor defense" idea. Most any defensive stat you can pull up indicate he is average to significantly above average.

    His performance is fine given his limited experience and youth.

  10. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by torocan View Post
    His offensive numbers are mediocre for a starting PG. They're far from mediocre for a player with 55 starts, 94 total games and 2200 minutes under their belt.

    2,200 minutes, you DO realize how few minutes that is? His first 29 games he averaged 9.8 minutes per game. So in terms of actual minutes played, you're talking about a rookie.

    John Wall played 2,602 minutes in his FIRST season.
    Russell Westbrook played 2,670 minutes in his FIRST season.
    Landry Fields played 2,540 minutes in his FIRST season.

    As for "poor defense" what are you basing that on? The statistics don't say "poor" defense.

    Hoopsdata has Jeremy Lin at a 2.46 Defensive Efficiency (8th among PG's in the NBA).

    Basketball Reference rates him at a 106 DRtg (on par with Courtney Lee).

    According to Synergy Sports,

    Jeremy Lin...

    0.84 PPP allowed overall, 149th in the NBA
    0.76 PPP allowed in Isolation, 68th in the NBA
    0.76 PPP allowed against PnR Ball Handlers, 73rd in the NBA

    In terms of other details...

    1.80 steals per game, 7th amongst PG's, 2.66/48 (10th)
    0.43 blocks per game, 6th amongst PG's, 0.64/48 (6th)
    3.8 rebounds per game, 8th amongs PG's, 5.6/48 (8th)

    Oh, and while we're at it, THIS season...

    5 double/doubles. 9th amongst PG's.
    12.0 ppg, 25th amongst PG's
    6.3 apg, 15th amongst PG's

    So really, not sure exactly where you get the "poor defense" idea. Most any defensive stat you can pull up indicate he is average to significantly above average.

    His performance is fine given his limited experience and youth.

    He's also had games where he's airballed open 3's, got routinely torched by the opposing pg, and had more TO's than assist. My definition of poor defense is he gambles a lot on D which will get you steals but will also get you burned which happens to him a lot. Also he's not the quickest guy in the world laterally so he has problems with keeping guys with a nice handle in front of him. Not to mention offensively he's not very athletic and isn't the best finisher around.

    If you want to basically say this is his rookie year ok cool but there are plenty of rookie pg's that have done and are doing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better. You can argue that they were drafted higher than him but I would respond there are reasons they were up so high on the board and he was so low.

    He could very well end up being a top tier pg one unforseen magical day but as far as right now, as we sit, when I think about a franchise pg Im definitely not thinking about Lin.......


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  11. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Starks View Post
    He's also had games where he's airballed open 3's, got routinely torched by the opposing pg, and had more TO's than assist. My definition of poor defense is he gambles a lot on D which will get you steals but will also get you burned which happens to him a lot. Also he's not the quickest guy in the world laterally so he has problems with keeping guys with a nice handle in front of him. Not to mention offensively he's not very athletic and isn't the best finisher around.
    People air ball all the time. Just look for them during a game, it happens. And really, an air ball or off the rim, a miss is a miss is a miss.

    As for Athletic, he's elite in quickness. His BAM scores confirm this. Morey has already stated in interviews that he has the fastest acceleration they have ever recorded... faster than Lowry, faster than Dragic.

    As for finishing around the rim, who said he's the "best" around? He finishes fine around the rim. His statistics show that you're completely wrong.

    At the Rim - 59.3%
    3-9 Feet - 40.7%

    Those are all at about league average for PG's. That's after having a terrible November. He's shooting 48.5% in December. Far from terrible.

    As for his "gambling a lot", that's a subjective opinion. A steal gets you a PPP of ZERO, AND it puts you in a fast break situation (highest scoring potential). It's as good as forcing a miss AND getting the rebound TWICE in scoring terms.

    Are you going to use that same argument against Chris Paul (leader in steals), Jennings, Westbrook, Kemba Walker, Goran Dragic and Ty Lawson (all above Lin in steals per game). Or does their steals get a pass?

    Are you also going to claim that the opposing PG's that get torched have terrible defense? Lin put up 38 and 21 on the Spurs, 20 on Chicago, 21 on the Knicks, 19 on Utah and 21 on Atlanta.

    Or maybe you're ignoring that stopping a PG off a PnR is about TEAM defense, NOT purely about individual defense.

    If you want to basically say this is his rookie year ok cool but there are plenty of rookie pg's that have done and are doing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better. You can argue that they were drafted higher than him but I would respond there are reasons they were up so high on the board and he was so low.
    Wrong again. Rookie seasons, averaging 12.0 ppg and 6.3 apg or better, since 1979, a total of 24 guards (1's AND 2's). That's 24 guards in 43 years.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...r_by=pts_per_g

    He could very well end up being a top tier pg one unforseen magical day but as far as right now, as we sit, when I think about a franchise pg Im definitely not thinking about Lin.......
    Who said franchise PG? If he was a franchise PG he'd be paid $14M+ per year. He makes $8.3M/year. That's an average starting PG salary. He's performing at or better than that in every metric.

    As for what he'll end up, no idea. Franchise is unlikely just because you're talking 1-3 Player's of ANY position in the entire NBA that fall in that category. Franchise centers, franchise shooting guards, franchise PF's or SF's... there just aren't that many around.

    And I guarantee for every player that you thought *could* be a franchise player, the vast majority never get there. And of the franchise players, more than a few fell into the "I never thought he'd be that good" category.

    Taking the stance of "I don't see him as a franchise player someday" is the definition of argumentative laziness.

    How's this, I'll go sit in a MBA class and point to people and say, "You're good, but I don't see you ever being a Millionaire". Surprise, I'd be right 98% of the time.

  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by torocan View Post
    People air ball all the time. Just look for them during a game, it happens. And really, an air ball or off the rim, a miss is a miss is a miss.

    As for Athletic, he's elite in quickness. His BAM scores confirm this. Morey has already stated in interviews that he has the fastest acceleration they have ever recorded... faster than Lowry, faster than Dragic.

    As for finishing around the rim, who said he's the "best" around? He finishes fine around the rim. His statistics show that you're completely wrong.

    At the Rim - 59.3%
    3-9 Feet - 40.7%

    Those are all at about league average for PG's. That's after having a terrible November. He's shooting 48.5% in December. Far from terrible.

    As for his "gambling a lot", that's a subjective opinion. A steal gets you a PPP of ZERO, AND it puts you in a fast break situation (highest scoring potential). It's as good as forcing a miss AND getting the rebound TWICE in scoring terms.

    Are you going to use that same argument against Chris Paul (leader in steals), Jennings, Westbrook, Kemba Walker, Goran Dragic and Ty Lawson (all above Lin in steals per game). Or does their steals get a pass?

    Are you also going to claim that the opposing PG's that get torched have terrible defense? Lin put up 38 and 21 on the Spurs, 20 on Chicago, 21 on the Knicks, 19 on Utah and 21 on Atlanta.

    Or maybe you're ignoring that stopping a PG off a PnR is about TEAM defense, NOT purely about individual defense.



    Wrong again. Rookie seasons, averaging 12.0 ppg and 6.3 apg or better, since 1979, a total of 24 guards (1's AND 2's). That's 24 guards in 43 years.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...r_by=pts_per_g



    Who said franchise PG? If he was a franchise PG he'd be paid $14M+ per year. He makes $8.3M/year. That's an average starting PG salary. He's performing at or better than that in every metric.

    As for what he'll end up, no idea. Franchise is unlikely just because you're talking 1-3 Player's of ANY position in the entire NBA that fall in that category. Franchise centers, franchise shooting guards, franchise PF's or SF's... there just aren't that many around.

    And I guarantee for every player that you thought *could* be a franchise player, the vast majority never get there. And of the franchise players, more than a few fell into the "I never thought he'd be that good" category.

    Taking the stance of "I don't see him as a franchise player someday" is the definition of argumentative laziness.

    How's this, I'll go sit in a MBA class and point to people and say, "You're good, but I don't see you ever being a Millionaire". Surprise, I'd be right 98% of the time.

    Thanks for the ever-so-clever facepalm but where in my post did I say I don't ever see him becoming a franchise pg? I believe I said he one day could but right now as we sit, key words "as we sit," Im not thinking about Lin when I think about pg's. And as far as franchise pg's for them that's exactly what he is. His deal was structured in a way where NY would be stupid to match and certainly nobody is going out of their way to trade for him so for all intents and purposes for the next few years that's their guy.

    Dude got overpaid, how can people not see that? He's getting what 8milli a year to put Jeff Teague/ Darren Collison numbers, players I'd take over him in a heartbeat who are getting like a 3rd of his salary.

    But hey I could be wrong, maybe Lin is really good. After all he is 3rd in allstar voting for WC guards.........
    Last edited by Tony_Starks; 12-30-2012 at 10:47 PM.


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  13. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Starks View Post
    He's also had games where he's airballed open 3's, got routinely torched by the opposing pg, and had more TO's than assist. My definition of poor defense is he gambles a lot on D which will get you steals but will also get you burned which happens to him a lot. Also he's not the quickest guy in the world laterally so he has problems with keeping guys with a nice handle in front of him. Not to mention offensively he's not very athletic and isn't the best finisher around.
    stats show that it doesn't. So your definition of poor D is a bad one. Also he is one of the best finishers at the rim for a PG. There are many PGs blowing layups and shooting airballs. There are even SG's shooting airballs, get this JR Smith shot 2 airballs this season in 2 different games. It happens. The Shven guy who is a dead ringer for Brent Barry from 3, he even shot airballs.

    If you want to basically say this is his rookie year ok cool but there are plenty of rookie pg's that have done and are doing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better. You can argue that they were drafted higher than him but I would respond there are reasons they were up so high on the board and he was so low.
    No they haven't. Not in their rookie yr. in the position. As for being drafted, we already know he stereotyped out the draft, b/c you go back to that 2010 draft what guard there is doing better than him?

    He could very well end up being a top tier pg one unforseen magical day but as far as right now, as we sit, when I think about a franchise pg Im definitely not thinking about Lin.......
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  14. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Starks View Post
    Dude got overpaid, how can people not see that? He's getting what 8milli a year to put Jeff Teague/ Darren Collison numbers, players I'd take over him in a heartbeat who are getting like a 3rd of his salary.

    But hey I could be wrong, maybe Lin is really good. After all he is 3rd in allstar voting for WC guards.........
    That's that same Jeff Teague Lin dropped 21/7 on while holding him to 14 pts. right? Darren Collison? do you realize he just became a starter right now in Dallas. He's good, I'm not saying he isn't, but you'd take him over Lin's upside? ok.

    It's a world voting. The first 2 PGs will chosen by fan votes, the rest Pops picks.
    when they forget what Kevin Long saids

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  15. #405
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    You really need to get back to selling bean pies on street corners and renewing your subscription to ebony and jet magazine.

    Seriously, you're making all black people look stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Starks View Post
    He's also had games where he's airballed open 3's, got routinely torched by the opposing pg, and had more TO's than assist. My definition of poor defense is he gambles a lot on D which will get you steals but will also get you burned which happens to him a lot. Also he's not the quickest guy in the world laterally so he has problems with keeping guys with a nice handle in front of him. Not to mention offensively he's not very athletic and isn't the best finisher around.

    If you want to basically say this is his rookie year ok cool but there are plenty of rookie pg's that have done and are doing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better. You can argue that they were drafted higher than him but I would respond there are reasons they were up so high on the board and he was so low.

    He could very well end up being a top tier pg one unforseen magical day but as far as right now, as we sit, when I think about a franchise pg Im definitely not thinking about Lin.......

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