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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    No, the getting Revere to help them statement is not unreasonable, the statement saying that they got rid of Worley because they did not think much off him was.

    I go by the old saying that to get something you have to give up something, so to get Revere who could be a solid player for them, they gave up Worley was a solid starter for them.
    I am sure they thought Worley did well for them but I don't think they were tossing and turning at night wondering if they gave up the next Greg Maddux or something. I agree, in order to gain something you have to give up something but Revere's value to the Phillies will far exceed anything Worley would have done with them. They have three stud starters and a good bullpen. Trading a #4 starter for an everyday centerfielder is a no brainer.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    The SLG seems low to me. I see a .260/.350/.510 guy with great defense at 1B if everything goes right.
    Again, Ike is not "GREAT" defensively.. He's good picking bad throws with below average range on everything else. His defensive skills are neither a significant difference maker nor unique.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by SILVER SEAVER View Post
    I am sure they thought Worley did well for them but I don't think they were tossing and turning at night wondering if they gave up the next Greg Maddux or something. I agree, in order to gain something you have to give up something but Revere's value to the Phillies will far exceed anything Worley would have done with them. They have three stud starters and a good bullpen. Trading a #4 starter for an everyday centerfielder is a no brainer.
    This. It was a no-brainer. It should have been a no-brainer for us as well. We have the worst damn outfield in the entire league and we passed up one of the better ones in the league.

  4. #184
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    One of the better OF in the league. The kid has 1 OK year under his belt. For **** sake.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrightStuff82 View Post
    Just a simple case of baseball novices who do not understand the winning value of repeatedly taking away outs from the other team.
    I do understand the value of taking outs away from the other team, it's just that Revere is not as good as advertised in CF and he had to nearly hit .300 to have a wOBA of .300. That is pathetic offense.

    The guy I would love to pursue is Peter Bourjos, who is WAY better than Revere. He is a proven tremendous CF who can actually hit the ball further than 400 ft.

    You don't seem to understand the value of a strong throwing arm. That is where Bourjos KILLS Revere. A double gets hit deep in the gap, with Revere's water gun arm I can see hitters going for triples and taking extra bases.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrightStuff82 View Post
    Again, Ike is not "GREAT" defensively.. He's good picking bad throws with below average range on everything else. His defensive skills are neither a significant difference maker nor unique.
    He looks great compared to the garbage we had prior to him. Take Tex out of Yankees Stadium or Arlington in his earlier days and his numbers don't look as great as they are. He'd be just a slick fielding gold glover who hits like Ike now. Hell, he's hit .256 in 2010, .248 in 2011 and .251 in 2012 and that's playing 81 games in a bandbox and 9 others at Fenway. Stick Ike in a hitter friendly park and his numbers blow up. His defense is good and that's all we need, not everyone can be Keith Hernandez.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by SILVER SEAVER View Post
    I am sure they thought Worley did well for them but I don't think they were tossing and turning at night wondering if they gave up the next Greg Maddux or something. I agree, in order to gain something you have to give up something but Revere's value to the Phillies will far exceed anything Worley would have done with them. They have three stud starters and a good bullpen. Trading a #4 starter for an everyday centerfielder is a no brainer.
    Obviously I agree that giving up a 4th starter for an everyday player is a good move since I would of dealt Gee for Revere, but do not underrate the value of Worley to that staff. They have 2 older guys in Halladay and Lee, thought they both are still excellent. That team's strength was the rotation and the fact that had a guy like Worley as their 4th/5th starter and one of the better ones around the league.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrightStuff82 View Post
    Again, Ike is not "GREAT" defensively.. He's good picking bad throws with below average range on everything else. His defensive skills are neither a significant difference maker nor unique.
    UZR for 1st baseman is extremely unreliable so I've heard. So I wouldn't put much stock into his UZR rating for 2012. And if he did lose some range, I'm sure it was from his ankle injury. He should regain some of that range as time moves on, because we all know he was great in 2010.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrightStuff82 View Post
    This. It was a no-brainer. It should have been a no-brainer for us as well. We have the worst damn outfield in the entire league and we passed up one of the better ones in the league.
    Sandy has cauliflower ear from being on the phone with teams about Dickey, he had no time. lol

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    Obviously I agree that giving up a 4th starter for an everyday player is a good move since I would of dealt Gee for Revere, but do not underrate the value of Worley to that staff. They have 2 older guys in Halladay and Lee, thought they both are still excellent. That team's strength was the rotation and the fact that had a guy like Worley as their 4th/5th starter and one of the better ones around the league.
    They are in win now mode because of how old their core is. If Bourn could have been had for cheap I bet you dollars to donuts he's in a Phillies uniform right now. They are not concerned about the future and getting young players in there, Revere was available and they made the move, not because he was 24 and they worried about 2016.
    Last edited by SILVER SEAVER; 12-08-2012 at 08:25 PM.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    It's just my opinion dude. Fact is, Worley has been better, but I feel there is more evidence to show Gee will be better moving forward. You can disagree if you'd like.
    Again, there is no great evidence to say this aside from the 100-130 innings they pitched last year in which Gee was slightly better than Worley.

    ...and I have not even brought up the parks they played in, but did showed stats that are parks adjusted.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrightStuff82 View Post
    Ike will NEVER hit .300 over the course of a full season. If we're lucky he'll become a regular .270/.360/.470, 30 HR guy, and as a first basemen that makes him about a 4 WAR player. That is best case dream scenario for Ike and he's yet to put that together.

    As far as defensive goes, He is above average at picking out bad throws from the other infielders, but his overall range and fielding as a defensive first basemen is highly overrated on this forums. He's fairly average defensive glove at a position that is the least demanding position on the diamond.
    Here you go with WAR again... when are you gonna learn?

    Yes, I'd much rather have Darwin Barney on my team than Josh Hamilton, Prince Fielder, Albert Pujols, etc.... because Barney had the higher WAR last yr.

    Ike as a .270 hitter with 30 HR's? I'll take that any day over a decent defensive CF with a terrible arm who can only hit singles and steal bases.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrightStuff82 View Post
    This. It was a no-brainer. It should have been a no-brainer for us as well. We have the worst damn outfield in the entire league and we passed up one of the better ones in the league.
    Please don't tell me that you're saying Revere is one of the better OF'ers in the league

  14. #194
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    I can see it now... WrightStuff becomes Mets GM... he fills our team with guys solely based on who has the higher WAR.. he has the opportunity to get Darwin Barney or Prince Fielder. He takes Barney cuz he had a higher WAR. He has a choice between Giancarlo Stanton and Michael Bourn. He takes Bourn cuz he had the higher WAR. He gets Revere for Ike.

    Mets lead the league in singles and SB's.... problem was, they needed 3 hits, sometimes 4 just to score 1 run.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    Please don't tell me that you're saying Revere is one of the better OF'ers in the league
    Top 30. He could start on 20-22 outfields in this league. I guess you want me to apologize for wanting to improve our pathetic outfield? Well eat it pal. And go learn something about the value of outs.

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