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  1. #76
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    I'm all for using WAR, but you have to use it in context, like any stat. There is a HUGE difference between being more valuable, and being a better player. Revere could possibly be more valuable, but no way is he better.
    Last edited by Sick Of It All; 12-07-2012 at 10:25 PM. Reason: deleted quote

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    His whole game regressed last year because for the most part he wasnt himself. But when he's right, he's more of an impact player than Revere could ever be.

    At any rate, using Ike's numbers from last season to define him is just wrong.
    I don't think so.

    If he can carry his second half into next season then yes he is the better player going forward.

    I am not sure he can with the ebb and flow to his game.
    Last edited by metswon69; 12-07-2012 at 10:28 PM.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrightStuff82 View Post
    Stop embarassing yourself. When you have an opportunity to add 7 WAR with 2 players through trading fringe players and prospects, when your 2nd best everyday player is a 2 WAR player, you do it.
    So...........You'd obviously rather have this team;

    Molina, LaRoche, Barney, Lawrie, Aybar, Hunter, Reddick, and Prado

    than this team;

    Mauer, Fielder, Pedroia, Zimmerman, Starlin Castro, Stanton, Holliday, and Josh Hamilton

    Because that first team had a combined WAR greater than the second team,

    So it's obviously the better team, right??

    Oh, um.. you lose!
    Last edited by bklynny67; 12-07-2012 at 10:31 PM.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    so... WrightStuff
    You'd obviously rather have this team;

    Molina, LaRoche, Barney, Lawrie, Aybar, Hunter, Reddick, and Prado

    than this team;

    Mauer, Fielder, Pedroia, Zimmerman, Starlin Castro, Stanton, Holliday, and Josh Hamilton

    Because that first team had a combined WAR greater than the second team, it's obviously the better team, right??
    Is Ike any of those latter players yet?

    He can become certainly a more valuable player than Revere going forqard but he has to put together a consistent season first.

    You are strawmanning my argument anyway, I said Revere could be the more valuable player if Ike doesn't improve.

    Ike certainly has the ability to be more valuable than Revere if he hits more consistently.

    When Ike does along with the defense we know he can play he will be in that next tier of first baseman.
    Last edited by metswon69; 12-07-2012 at 10:44 PM.

  5. #80
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    The home runs and RBIs are overrated though if he doesn't improve his other offensive and defensive peripherals.
    Last edited by metswon69; 12-07-2012 at 10:45 PM.

  6. #81
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    My original argument was more to the fact that its harder to find a CF with that value than it is a 1st baseman.

    I don't thinks that's an unfair argument with all the Ike like valued first baseman in the majors.

    Can Ike be the more valued player? Without question but Revere could have still had a significant impact had we acquired him.
    Last edited by metswon69; 12-07-2012 at 10:58 PM.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    My original argument was more to the fact that its harder to find a CF with that value than it is a 1st baseman.

    I don't thinks that's an unfair argument with all the Ike like valued first baseman in the majors.

    Can Ike be the more valued player? Without question but Revere could have still had a significant impact had we acquired him.
    You said Revere was better than Ike, which is not true. Revere might possibly be more valuable though.

    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    The home runs and RBIs are overrated though if he doesn't improve his other offensive and defensive peripherals.
    Homers are NOT overrated. Defensive peripherals for first baseman have to be taken with a grain of salt. Ike is one of the best defensive 1st baseman in the league.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Is Ike any of those latter players yet?

    He can become certainly a more valuable player than Revere going forqard but he has to put together a consistent season first.

    You are strawmanning my argument anyway, I said Revere could be the more valuable player if Ike doesn't improve.

    Ike certainly has the ability to be more valuable than Revere if he hits more consistently.

    When Ike does along with the defense we know he can play he will be in that next tier of first baseman.
    You're the GM of the Mets. You get an offer of Ben Revere for Ike Davis straight up. Do you accept?

    If the answer is yes, then just get the hell outta here cuz you're ridiculous.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    You're the GM of the Mets. You get an offer of Ben Revere for Ike Davis straight up. Do you accept?

    If the answer is yes, then just get the hell outta here cuz you're ridiculous.


    Word.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    You said Revere was better than Ike, which is not true. Revere might possibly be more valuable though.



    Homers are NOT overrated. Defensive peripherals for first baseman have to be taken with a grain of salt. Ike is one of the best defensive 1st baseman in the league.
    They are when he can only hit .240-.250 and basically end being a platoon 1st baseman because he can't hit LHP.

    And Ike's glove certainly regressed to some extent last year.

    I don't have much question he will be better in that regard next year I just don't expect him to take huge steps offensively next year.

    He will certainly have a better but I still don't see 40+ homers and 115 RBIs from him next year
    Last edited by metswon69; 12-07-2012 at 11:25 PM.

  11. #86
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    Whether the first half underperformance had all to do with the valley fever I am not sure.

    As for Revere, ill backtrack and admit he is not the better player and stick more towards my original argument which was its more difficult to find a quality CF than it is a first baseman of Ike's stature.

    And that Revere could still be the more valuable player if Ike doesn't improve.
    Last edited by metswon69; 12-07-2012 at 11:26 PM.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    You're the GM of the Mets. You get an offer of Ben Revere for Ike Davis straight up. Do you accept?

    If the answer is yes, then just get the hell outta here cuz you're ridiculous.
    Lol...this is exactly what I was thinking.

    I can't wait for Ike to prove that he is without a shadow of a doubt better than Revere.

    It won't take much lol.
    DUDA


    Quote Originally Posted by VendettaRed07 View Post
    noah is gonna be a beast man.

    with him and harvey, its like were gonna have Goku and Vegetta in the same rotation

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Whether the first half underperformance had all to do with the valley fever I am not sure.

    As for Revere, ill backtrack and admit he is not the better player and stick more towards my original argument which was its more difficult to find a quality CF than.it is a first baseman of Ike stature.
    You are still underrating Ike and overrating Revere.

    Revere is barely a quality starting CF. His offense is garbage. You can find better CFers out there. Its not that hard. He is decent, but not irreplaceably good. Lets not make him out to be a valuable commodity.

    Ike on the other hand is just an average 1st baseman right now. This is correct. However, he still has massive upside and its more likely than not that he will begin to show what he can do sooner rather than later.

    In this situation you just gotta use common sense and understand that Ike is a better player than the stats have indicated. He was good in the minors. He had a solid rookie year. He was off to a good start his sophomore year but got hurt. Then he struggled like hell for the first 2 months of last season. That could have been due to valley fever or pure rust, but he bounced back and actually played well from June on. Ike will be fine. He is vastly superior to Revere, who is barely a starting CF who only starts because he has speed and is decent in the field in a scarce position...but he makes very little impact at the plate at the end of the day.

    There is no smart argument here. I'd rather have a gaping hole at CF and Ike at 1B than Revere and CF and someone like Duda playing 1B.

    You will soon come to realize how unfairly you are underrating Ike, and how its ridiculous to make claim that Revere is a more valuable commodity.
    Last edited by Wrigheyes4MVP; 12-07-2012 at 11:27 PM.
    DUDA


    Quote Originally Posted by VendettaRed07 View Post
    noah is gonna be a beast man.

    with him and harvey, its like were gonna have Goku and Vegetta in the same rotation

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    Lol...this is exactly what I was thinking.

    I can't wait for Ike to prove that he is without a shadow of a doubt better than Revere.

    It won't take much lol.
    Of course he'll prove it.

    Revere is really not that good. He's a weak singles hitter with absolutely NO power at all. He had 19 extra base hits the entire yr. Ike may double that in HR's alone. He can field the CF position well, but has a terrible arm. The only thing he has going for him is he plays CF and can steal bases, and dude over there keeps saying how its harder to find a CF than 1B as if this guy is a great CF..... There's plenty of guys who can steal bases. 23 guys stole at least 30 last yr with several very close to 30. We can get speed elswhere rather than give up better and more valuable players

  15. #90
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    ^^^ I like Ike but I just don't think he is a .260 or .270 with 40+ home run power till he learns to hit lefties much more consistently.

    To me he is 30-35 home run hitter with a .240 average the way he is currently tooled.

    With those latter stats there are a lot of similarly valued 1st baseman.

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