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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    EVERYONE was under the impression that we would match just about anything. So NY could have explored a S&T. I'm not saying you were going to get back a stud player. But they could have gotten SOMETHING, HOU has ALOT of young players. And in a S&T scenario Lin would have cost HOU less. Hell they didn't want Kmart, could you imagine him on this roster? Ideal SG for us. Not sure if we could have matched salaries... but NY never even explored this because they thought all along Lin would be the starting PG. So you're giving them too much credit as if they planned this all along.

    And HOU wasn't the only team interested, Lin reportedly had 3 teams lined up to speak to...

    That's pretty much my point, NY didn't decide "Lin is not the real deal, let's let him go". They were backed into that position and scrambled to get Felton.
    no you missed my point and i'll be clearer, if even at 5 mil for yr one Knicks would have to take back a player near that salary, who is that from Houston?

    So no Knicks are in a win now mode, so going youth for multiple players who may not even make the team, Nope not happening.



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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    no you missed my point and i'll be clearer, if even at 5 mil for yr one Knicks would have to take back a player near that salary, who is that from Houston?

    So no Knicks are in a win now mode, so going youth for multiple players who may not even make the team, Nope not happening.
    No, not missing your point, there were other teams interested as well.

    As far as from HOU, heck we could have asked for Scola before they amnestied him. WIN WIN for both teams and how great would Scola be on this team as a backup 4 and insurance for Amare?

    Or Patrick Patterson...etc...

    Its ok to admit they could have handled it better. There's not a single poster on here that would have been ok with us letting Lin go for NOTHING when we won the bird rights case.

    And "win now" doesn't mean you can't have a prospect or two, should we let Shump go because he's inexperienced and we're in "win now"? Of course not, that's just a way to justify it.

  3. #48
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    Props to Anji: aug 2nd on Grunny:

    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...9&postcount=40



    Now I can't fly my airplane

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    No, not missing your point, there were other teams interested as well.

    As far as from HOU, heck we could have asked for Scola before they amnestied him. WIN WIN for both teams and how great would Scola be on this team as a backup 4 and insurance for Amare?

    Or Patrick Patterson...etc...

    Its ok to admit they could have handled it better. There's not a single poster on here that would have been ok with us letting Lin go for NOTHING when we won the bird rights case.

    And "win now" doesn't mean you can't have a prospect or two, should we let Shump go because he's inexperienced and we're in "win now"? Of course not, that's just a way to justify it.
    So basically you wanted both teams to be accused of collusion?

    At what point is a sign and trade done, surely can't do it after the tendered a deal.

    And I honestly don't think there were other teams interested, there is really zero proof of that.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jagged QT View Post
    So basically you wanted both teams to be accused of collusion?

    At what point is a sign and trade done, surely can't do it after the tendered a deal.

    And I honestly don't think there were other teams interested, there is really zero proof of that.


    A sign & trade is done before he signs obviously. HOU was interested from day 1. Had NY made the decision to let Lin go early on, they could have actually gotten something for him.

    Have no idea what you mean by collusion. S&T's of RFA's happen all the time.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post


    A sign & trade is done before he signs obviously. HOU was interested from day 1. Had NY made the decision to let Lin go early on, they could have actually gotten something for him.

    Have no idea what you mean by collusion. S&T's of RFA's happen all the time.
    It makes zero sense for Lin to do it, because he'll make less, and for Houston to give up anything for a player they can get with just their cap space.

    That's where the collusion comes in.

    And as for the other point, RFA's are not signed and traded that often, certainly not all the time, thus adding to the suspect factor.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jagged QT View Post
    It makes zero sense for Lin to do it, because he'll make less, and for Houston to give up anything for a player they can get with just their cap space.

    That's where the collusion comes in.

    And as for the other point, RFA's are not signed and traded that often, certainly not all the time, thus adding to the suspect factor.
    lol suspect factor? Dude its not against the rules to do a S&T!...

    And yes Lin would have to agree to it, but if NY had S&T him at 4/26m and presented that to HOU, I'm pretty sure everyone would have been amicable to that. Lin had no idea he was going to get offered 3/25m, in fact his first deal was 3/19 and he was going to accept, so why wouldn't he accept 4/26m which is about what NY could have offered?

    HOU would have won because they could have actually cleared Scola's deal off their books completely and kept their amnesty. And they would have been GUARANTEED Lin at a cheaper price without having to wait on NY to decide whether they were going to match.

    And NY would have won by getting back Scola.

    There's no collusion in any of that... its just smart business.

  8. #53
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    As happy as I am with this team, it actually pisses me off just having thought of this.

    Lin for Scola made soooo much sense for both teams.

    Imagine Scola playing with Prigs on the 2nd unit... Devastating. I've always liked his game, and with Amare out he would have been the perfect starting 4 for us.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    lol suspect factor? Dude its not against the rules to do a S&T!...

    And yes Lin would have to agree to it, but if NY had S&T him at 4/26m and presented that to HOU, I'm pretty sure everyone would have been amicable to that. Lin had no idea he was going to get offered 3/25m, in fact his first deal was 3/19 and he was going to accept, so why wouldn't he accept 4/26m which is about what NY could have offered?

    HOU would have won because they could have actually cleared Scola's deal off their books completely and kept their amnesty. And they would have been GUARANTEED Lin at a cheaper price without having to wait on NY to decide whether they were going to match.

    And NY would have won by getting back Scola.

    There's no collusion in any of that... its just smart business.
    Its because all intentions were to sign Lin. Period. Things didn't work out for multiple reasons and the knicks scattered and signed Felton. So far it's worked in our favor. Like you said just because were a win now team doesn't mean we cant take young pieces back. Patrick Peterson is solid, plays smart he would have been great for us or even Scola like you said.

    What if Shump comes back and struggles do we get rid of him because we have Ronnie for another veteran?

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzace137 View Post
    Its because all intentions were to sign Lin. Period. Things didn't work out for multiple reasons and the knicks scattered and signed Felton. So far it's worked in our favor. Like you said just because were a win now team doesn't mean we cant take young pieces back. Patrick Peterson is solid, plays smart he would have been great for us or even Scola like you said.

    What if Shump comes back and struggles do we get rid of him because we have Ronnie for another veteran?
    well that was exactly my point to STILLA, who is praising our FO as if getting Felton over Lin was our plan all along. if that were the case we could have Scola...easily.

    It wasn't... we wanted Lin... we just lucked out that things worked out ok.

    Not to mention if we had Scola there would have been no need for Camby and we could have used our S&T pieces for another piece like Foye.

    I like Grunwald, but lets not paint him out to be a genius in this case now that Lin is struggling when he clearly wanted Lin back.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzace137 View Post
    Its because all intentions were to sign Lin. Period. Things didn't work out for multiple reasons and the knicks scattered and signed Felton. So far it's worked in our favor. Like you said just because were a win now team doesn't mean we cant take young pieces back. Patrick Peterson is solid, plays smart he would have been great for us or even Scola like you said.

    What if Shump comes back and struggles do we get rid of him because we have Ronnie for another veteran?
    The problem I have with both your logics is your assuming Houston would do this? And give us young players they just may not give up?

    Yes we are a win now team, like other teams who through either trades, FA, or whatever continually find players.

    Would anyone think the Heat get Ray Allen?

    How about the Lakers picking up Nash and now Howard?

    How about Okla a young contending team giving up a 23 yr old Olympian? So Houston got rewarded there but could you predict it?

    Could you predict a year ago Knicks get Felton and he plays great? Knicks get old but have very smart players who can still give meaniful minutes?

    Could anyone predict what Kidd would bring to our team? Would anyone think Sheed after two yr's would actually play again and then contribute?

    Could anyone think a 35 yr old from oversees would help our team?

    So realizing all the above and thinking well lets get something, anything is not always right?

    Why?

    Becasue that kid may not make the roster which is built for today, you say so we are built for today would it hurt if we got a few young players?

    Yes if that meant taking up roster spots that are filled by guys contributing.

    Every year someone comes out of the blue, or a trade is made, or a D-leaguer or 2nd round pick shines, this will happen again I promise you.

    We have a full roster right now so much so that Woody has his hands full when Camby, Amare and Iman are at full strength.

    Anyone we would have picked up in the remote chance of a S&T would mean no Sheed, no cope, or no white..............all have contributed this year.

    We have plenty of time to get young but now we are going for the grand prize and not one guy returning that Houston would have handed us would be doing that today.

    Tomorrow is another day, the future is not as blick as some want to portray around here,

    Melo is 28
    Amare is 30
    Chandler is 30
    Brewer is 27
    JR is 27
    Felton is 28
    Cope is 28
    White is 30
    Shump is 22
    Novak is 29

    That is 10 players out of 12 who can even dress for a game 30 and under?

    We have picks the next 2 out 3 years and again you just never know.

    What if the seldom used Camby is needed by a team down the stretch and we can get some young talent back for him?

    You just don't know....................be happy that with all the decsions your team , my team and anyone who roots for the Knicks is 14-4,

    Lets repeat that 14-4 when everyone said we are too old and too slow.


    You take Sheed, Kidd, Thomas and prigs off the roster and our age is average so who really cares?

    Young talent seems to pop up, your one of the biggest fans of one of those guys so why not again

    I'll bet the Knicks in a win now mode know this and made their decision based on it.

    Sometimes roster spots become gold.



    Now I can't fly my airplane

  12. #57
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    I think I'm the only guy that wanted to keep Randolph. I've been saying this guy is a beast for years.

    Imagine Zach on this team right now.

    Oh well. So far so good for Grunwald. He wasn't given too much to deal with since Walsh gave away all our picks for the next half century.

    And great call on Lin. He's been terrible so far and Felton has been solid. How stupid must the Rockets be feeling. They let Lowry AND Dragic go, more importantly Dragic. Dragic is a beast. If they kept him in addition to Harden and Asik, the Rockets could have rivaled the Thunder in the coming years. Sucks for them.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    lol suspect factor? Dude its not against the rules to do a S&T!...

    And yes Lin would have to agree to it, but if NY had S&T him at 4/26m and presented that to HOU, I'm pretty sure everyone would have been amicable to that. Lin had no idea he was going to get offered 3/25m, in fact his first deal was 3/19 and he was going to accept, so why wouldn't he accept 4/26m which is about what NY could have offered?

    HOU would have won because they could have actually cleared Scola's deal off their books completely and kept their amnesty. And they would have been GUARANTEED Lin at a cheaper price without having to wait on NY to decide whether they were going to match.

    And NY would have won by getting back Scola.

    There's no collusion in any of that... its just smart business.
    That's a very rosie scenario, that hardly ever happens in the nba, primarily because it makes little sense to either side, and it fully wreaks of collusion.

    The Knicks who have ZERO leverage in this....

    First you have to convince Lin to leave, and make less to do it, keeping in mind his 3 year deal with Houston (rumored) had a 4th year team option.

    Secondly, Houston or us has nothing to even match salaries with....Scola was to be paid much more than Lin's starting salary so that don't work.

    Save the amnesty for who? No one else on the team is on a qualified deal.

    The point of it all is if Houston really truly wanted Lin, the Knicks have zero leverage and if it had been done that way, it would look very suspect.

    BTW, I'm still waiting for these RFA's and get signed and traded all the time.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well that was exactly my point to STILLA, who is praising our FO as if getting Felton over Lin was our plan all along. if that were the case we could have Scola...easily.

    It wasn't... we wanted Lin... we just lucked out that things worked out ok.

    Not to mention if we had Scola there would have been no need for Camby and we could have used our S&T pieces for another piece like Foye.

    I like Grunwald, but lets not paint him out to be a genius in this case now that Lin is struggling when he clearly wanted Lin back.
    your making a big assumption Knicks wanted Scola? Don't think they did, he was claimed off waivers by the Suns so that tells you his worth?

    He is not a Woody type player at all, he is not known for defense, and a player like Scola with Amare?

    come on no defense then more no defense? If your memory serves you correctly and Knicks were adament about it they wanted a defensive big in FA and were going for all the defensive players, K-Mart was on the list remember? They got Camby, Thomas and Sheed, defensive players and sheed stretch's the court.

    Scola the way he plays offense will simply clog the lane for melo.

    We are trying to figure out how to get Amare Chandler and Melo to play well together so lets Scola into the mix now?

    Its not as easy as you guys think when you say exactly its obvious Knicks weren't thinking like that.

    They are not called war rooms for no reason, the boards and information each team has is infinite.

    Maybe I may give our FO too much credit but some don't give them their due thats a fact.



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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hustla23 View Post
    I think I'm the only guy that wanted to keep Randolph. I've been saying this guy is a beast for years.

    Imagine Zach on this team right now.

    Oh well. So far so good for Grunwald. He wasn't given too much to deal with since Walsh gave away all our picks for the next half century.

    And great call on Lin. He's been terrible so far and Felton has been solid. How stupid must the Rockets be feeling. They let Lowry AND Dragic go, more importantly Dragic. Dragic is a beast. If they kept him in addition to Harden and Asik, the Rockets could have rivaled the Thunder in the coming years. Sucks for them.
    I though Dragic was a lock for them he played great. They just wanted to cash in on Lin's market and are looking stooped now. No way we kept Z-bo. If we had Z-bo no Amare and then Maybe no Melo ether.

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