Ian Stewart returning to Cubs

[GatorJimmy]

We did bid on Cespedes, and a very high number at that. We didnt get him. There are other teams that bid on players as well. So it seems what you would be saying is that we should simply throw money around and overpay for everyone because were a "big market team". Even then, Cespedes was a question mark and teams were worried how he would hit in the majors, and theres nothing wrong with that concern. Hindsight being 20/20, its easy to complain about not signing him when he ends up hitting .292 with 23 homeruns.

So lets play this out...

We outbid for Cespedes...he got 4 years 36 million...Lets say we sign him for 4 years 50 mil.

Reports have Grienke asking for 150-175 millions. Lets say we overpay and grab him at around 185 million.

Ramirez got 3 years 36...Lets say we go 3 years 45 Mil.

All of this is assuming that all 3 only want money and that there are no other factors, they are just taking whoever pays them the most, which doesnt happen all that much but well just roll with it.

So now we successfully have around 270-300 millions dollars tied up into 3 players, so that we can "not be an embarressment"

1. Does having those 3 makes us title contenders? I would go with no, but if your ok with 80-83 wins then its ok.
2. We probably are handcuffed to sign any other big name free agents for the next 4 or 5 years.
3. I argue that the payroll WOULD be crazy and that our offense would not be VERY good... but we be above average.

In this senario, Im not ok with spending 300 million to be OK. Id rather wait and trust Theo and Jed have a better long term plan then signing Zack Grienke for 180 millions and resigning Aramis Ramirez.

Patience...

Ok you are right we shouldn't throw money we have around. We should have a team full of scrubs who make the league minimum. You have to spend to win eventually. And I'm also not saying give grienke 180 million. But if he can be had for 6/125 than its something you do.

[gaughan333]

Ok you are right we shouldn't throw money we have around. We should have a team full of scrubs who make the league minimum. You have to spend to win eventually. And I'm also not saying give grienke 180 million. But if he can be had for 6/125 than its something you do.

He wont be. And this is what drives me nuts. People that say things like this. They want the cubs to go out and get these players then throw out numbers that wouldn't get them. What makes you think that another team wouldn't match that offer? What makes you think these top FAs would want to go to a team like the cubs. To get them, you would have to over pay. You most likely are not going to get top free agents at market price on a team that sucks

[SenorGato]

I'm perfectly fine with paying Greinke what the market dictates.

[ZamboniCub]

i just hope this signing is only a "just in case we dont find someone via trade" move. it better not stop us from looking elsewhere. not just wait till spring and see that he sucks cut him and go with valb/vitters... that sounds lazy.

[gaughan333]

I'm perfectly fine with paying Greinke what the market dictates.

I pretty much am too just because he is the best for a while, unless lincecum shows something next year and josh johnson gets healthy, but then those two still have that...but it still pisses me off when people say things like just sign him at 6/125. If that is what he wanted, he would have been signed on day 1 of free agency

[SenorGato]

Personally don't believe signing Greinke would take those guys out of the equation anyway. I do like Lincecum quite a bit despite his loss in velocity as it's natural and not due to a myriad of injuries like Johnson. Greinke also has lost a MPH since leaving the Royals, but that is without injury and rather just that velocity peaks early. Lincecum's changeup is legit, which always helps.

[gaughan333]

Personally don't believe signing Greinke would take those guys out of the equation anyway. I do like Lincecum quite a bit despite his loss in velocity as it's natural and not due to a myriad of injuries like Johnson. Greinke also has lost a MPH since leaving the Royals, but that is without injury and rather just that velocity peaks early. Lincecum's changeup is legit, which always helps.

Lincecum's velocity isn't his only problem though, his control diminished as well (may be from trying to make up for velocity).

[SenorGato]

Lincecum's velocity isn't his only problem though, his control diminished as well (may be from trying to make up for velocity).

Yeah he's got to adjust his whole style of pitching without the fastball, but as he remains healthy and highly athletic I think he can make the adjustments. Hard to do that and translate into numbers during the season so he will be yet another interesting case and storyline in 2013 for me. He'll never be the bonafide ace he was, but a 2-3 on a quality pitching staff is fine if the Cubs build that kind of staff.

[Rynoplasty]

I'm perfectly fine with paying Greinke what the market dictates.

You can't just "pay what the market dictates" and get him. You have to outbid a team that is both a) currently better and more attractive to top free agents and b) seemingly willing to pay any amount due to the bottomless pockets of its ownership group.

[KyleJRM]

You can't just "pay what the market dictates" and get him. You have to outbid a team that is both a) currently better and more attractive to top free agents and b) seemingly willing to pay any amount due to the bottomless pockets of its ownership group.

Yeah, I really have a feeling that he Dodgers would have just kept going up another $2 million in AAV over whatever we offered.

All the more reason why we should have struck last year.

[gaughan333]

Yeah, I really have a feeling that he Dodgers would have just kept going up another $2 million in AAV over whatever we offered.

All the more reason why we should have struck last year.

Yeah...totally shoulda grabbed Greinke last year...oh wait...

[Crusader]

If teams want to spend, fine. Let them spend themselves into oblivion while we get our crap together.

[KyleJRM]

Yeah...totally shoulda grabbed Greinke last year...oh wait...

I meant we should have hit him. Like, in the arm or something. Leave a nasty bruise.

[SenorGato]

Next year the Dodgers won't be so active in FA, though they probably will be looking for another top pitcher. Yankees will be trying to drop payroll.

Unfortunately, everyone else has money to spend. The Red Sox, the Mets...maybe the Phillies...The good thing is that after those Yankees and the Dodgers, the Cubs are the next biggest market franchise, and could/should end up being in the tippy top conversation if things go well. Everyone else is pretty bumble**** compared to NY, Chi, LA, and probably one day Miami.

In order of want for next year's FA SPs:

Halladay
Lester
Lincecum
Garza
Carpenter
Hughes
Johnson
Jimenez

[TyrionLannister]

Thread, guys, seriously. It's there for a reason. We don't need to be arguing the same topic in 5 different threads.

*primarily directed at the new guys, not those already familiar*