Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 94

Thread: Jemile Weeks

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Detroit
    Posts
    2,455
    vCash
    1500
    It doesn't matter what direction Peralta might be cheating to, he doesn't move side-to-side at all, except for 1 play in the ALCS, which was routine for a real SS.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,448
    vCash
    1500
    It does matter if he cheats to the right because that puts him out of place for hits towards the middle. And I'm pretty sure he's a real SS.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    K-zoo
    Posts
    1,156
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    First of all, I would love to replace Peralta with a SS with better range and more importantly a better bat (Andrus would be nice).

    But... Peralta isn't the crappy shortstop you make him out to be.

    For 2011-2012 with min 500 innings
    JP (2522 innings)
    RZR is .850 (1st)
    OOZ of 104 plays (13th)

    SDrew (1390 innings)
    RZR is .766 (42nd)
    OOZ of 77 plays (21st)

    Azdrubal Cabrera (2488 innings)
    RZR is .790 (30th)
    OOZ of 151 plays (5th)

    Revised Zone Rating is the proportion of balls hit into a fielder's zone that he successfully converted into an out.

    OOZ reflects the number of plays a fielder makes on balls that were hit outside of his "zone". A player's "zone", for purposes of the definition, is considered those parts of the field in which on average a fielder is able to convert half of his chances into outs.

    So JP is pretty good SS with average range. You can look down on "being sure handed on the balls he gets to" but its not a bad thing to actually make the outs your suppose to. And even when compared to Cabrera, JP doesn't make 47 more plays out of the zone but he actually made more plays in the zone.

    And don't you think Peralta has to cheat to his right to compensate for Miggy?
    We should really just stop with your first statement...an upgrade would be nice.

    Asdrubal Cabrera are Stephen Drew are not guys that I would want so quit using them as the benchmarks for Peralta's defensive prowess.

    Using your OOZ stat for 2012 Peralta finished 17 out of the top 21 shortstops in Fangraphs.com for OOZ rating...woohoo!!! Makes me want to bring this guy back.

    Finally, you are really starting to bug me with continuing to put Cabrera at 3B as a part of this conversation...Illitch wanted Fielder, Cabrera was willing to move to 3B...CABRERA SHOULD STILL BE PLAYING FREAKING FIRST BASE!!! If ANYTHING please make this about Fielder and his deficiencies and NOT about Cabrera...besides, Cabrera is the best hitter in all of baseball, he can play wherever he damn well pleases and we will all accept it and like it.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    K-zoo
    Posts
    1,156
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    It does matter if he cheats to the right because that puts him out of place for hits towards the middle. And I'm pretty sure he's a real SS.
    When you say that Peralta is a SS it shows me that opposite ends of magnet will simply never come together. GasMan, you can respond to this post or my last about Peralta or not...doesn't matter to me. I am glad that you like Peralta. I am glad that you are a Tiger fan. I am just going to agree to disagree with you and leave it at that. I am done responding.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,448
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by T $$$ View Post
    How does this shake out?
    1.) acquire Drew for SS,
    2.) trade Peralta to A's for Jemile Weeks,

    Does that make Santiago, Worth, or Berry dispensable? At least one comes off of the squad, correct? I am guessing Santiago in another deal somewhere...
    This is why I used Drew. I chose Cabrera because he is the one that displaced JP at SS in Cleveland because of his "superior D".

    The OOZ stat was just part of the data that backed my claim that JP is a decent SS with average range. If you disagree with the stats I've used then what is your argument beyond just saying he's not really a SS?

    I continue to bring up Cabrera because I think it effects the discussion. I'm not trying to debate Cabrera's value, I'm trying to discuss the effects of a poor defensive 3B on the ability of a SS with average range. Whether Cabrera should be playing there is immaterial because the fact is he is playing there, so does that effect JP's defense? I think it does.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,448
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by T $$$ View Post
    When you say that Peralta is a SS it shows me that opposite ends of magnet will simply never come together. GasMan, you can respond to this post or my last about Peralta or not...doesn't matter to me. I am glad that you like Peralta. I am glad that you are a Tiger fan. I am just going to agree to disagree with you and leave it at that. I am done responding.
    I don't understand this post. This is a Tigers discussion board. I'm trying to discuss a Tigers topic that you initiated. Why would you make a post if you didn't want people to respond?

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    K-zoo
    Posts
    1,156
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    This is why I used Drew. I chose Cabrera because he is the one that displaced JP at SS in Cleveland because of his "superior D".

    The OOZ stat was just part of the data that backed my claim that JP is a decent SS with average range. If you disagree with the stats I've used then what is your argument beyond just saying he's not really a SS?

    I continue to bring up Cabrera because I think it effects the discussion. I'm not trying to debate Cabrera's value, I'm trying to discuss the effects of a poor defensive 3B on the ability of a SS with average range. Whether Cabrera should be playing there is immaterial because the fact is he is playing there, so does that effect JP's defense? I think it does.
    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...phen-drew.html

    http://www.freep.com/article/2012112...jhonny-peralta

    http://www.freep.com/article/2012120...s|text|Detroit Tigers

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    K-zoo
    Posts
    1,156
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    I don't understand this post. This is a Tigers discussion board. I'm trying to discuss a Tigers topic that you initiated. Why would you make a post if you didn't want people to respond?
    I think I have responded...many times, as a matter of fact. There comes a point in time in a debate/discussion that you simply cut bait...I think that you and I are there. You like Peralta, I don't. You think that Peralta should play SS, I don't. You think Peralta is decent at SS, I don't. You think that Peralta is cost effective, I don't. You want to put Cabrera at 3B and his defense as part of the reasoning that Peralta should not be criticised, I absolutely do not agree.

    I have looked at your stat catagories and taken into consideration your points of view...I don't have anything else for you GasMan. Let's just agree to disagree. It is not that I don't want anymore discussion on this post...I just don't see the point in me discussing it any further with you. Your mind is made up as is mine. It is okay, the sky is not falling buddy. Like I said, I am glad YOU like Peralta and he is a player for you...most of all I am glad WE both love the Tigers. Lets just leave it at that.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,448
    vCash
    1500
    I'm not denying the Tigers were/are attempting to replace JP with Drew, I just don't understand the rationale behind that move.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,448
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by T $$$ View Post
    I think I have responded...many times, as a matter of fact. There comes a point in time in a debate/discussion that you simply cut bait...I think that you and I are there. You like Peralta, I don't. You think that Peralta should play SS, I don't. You think Peralta is decent at SS, I don't. You think that Peralta is cost effective, I don't. You want to put Cabrera at 3B and his defense as part of the reasoning that Peralta should not be criticised, I absolutely do not agree.

    I have looked at your stat catagories and taken into consideration your points of view...I don't have anything else for you GasMan. Let's just agree to disagree. It is not that I don't want anymore discussion on this post...I just don't see the point in me discussing it any further with you. Your mind is made up as is mine. It is okay, the sky is not falling buddy. Like I said, I am glad YOU like Peralta and he is a player for you...most of all I am glad WE both love the Tigers. Lets just leave it at that.
    Fair enough. I was hoping for some counter arguments on why you think JP is not a SS or why the defensive ability of the 3B doesn't effect the defensive range of he SS. Not trying to be jerky, just want a discussion. My mind is never made up, there's always room for a better understanding and always a chance I'm in the wrong.

    And I'm not really a JP guy, would prefer a SS who is at least well above average/elite at either/or the plate or field. Not sure where they get that but its not likely coming this year in FA. It's too important a position to be happy with league average but I guess that's what we have for now.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    K-zoo
    Posts
    1,156
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    Fair enough. I was hoping for some counter arguments on why you think JP is not a SS or why the defensive ability of the 3B doesn't effect the defensive range of he SS. Not trying to be jerky, just want a discussion. My mind is never made up, there's always room for a better understanding and always a chance I'm in the wrong.

    And I'm not really a JP guy, would prefer a SS who is at least well above average/elite at either/or the plate or field. Not sure where they get that but its not likely coming this year in FA. It's too important a position to be happy with league average but I guess that's what we have for now.
    You crack me up...

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    K-zoo
    Posts
    1,156
    vCash
    1500
    Here is an article I would like you to quickly read, this is the synopsis: Tigers would love to upgrade their infield defense, and for obvious reasons. Too many missed ground balls were the big culprit last season when the Tigers were 13th in the American League and 26th overall in defensive efficiency ratio, which measures how many balls put into play were turned into putouts. Peralta is responsible within his territory for a majority of those grounders. And that can be problematic when Peralta's range factor for 2012 was 4.14, which means he was getting to about one fewer ground ball every two games than a league-average shortstop.

    From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2ET1UovDU

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    274
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    Fair enough. I was hoping for some counter arguments on why you think JP is not a SS or why the defensive ability of the 3B doesn't effect the defensive range of he SS. Not trying to be jerky, just want a discussion. My mind is never made up, there's always room for a better understanding and always a chance I'm in the wrong.

    And I'm not really a JP guy, would prefer a SS who is at least well above average/elite at either/or the plate or field. Not sure where they get that but its not likely coming this year in FA. It's too important a position to be happy with league average but I guess that's what we have for now.
    I'll take over for T$$$ if he and you don't mind.

    When Peralta first came up he was a SS. Since then, he's put on weight and aged, which I hurts a SS the most. His personal range has gone down a lot over the last 4 years, granted as far as making the plays, he has soft hands. He can still get to routine balls, but you need your SS to get to the balls that are going up the middle or in between him and 3B, Peralta can't do that now.

    As for the argument about the 3B effecting his range, no. The only thing a 3B with good range does it get to balls the SS can't reach. It has nothing to do with the SS individual range. Whether Peralta has Cabrera beside him or Lawrie, his range and abilities will not change. He would still get to the same amount of balls.

    IMO, the way I look at D is this. Mainly, a 3B is usually power hitter(3-6 hitters) so most of the time has a little more size so isn't going to give you a lot of range side-to-side. The SS should be able to cover more ground than anybody and make up for the fact that 3B aren't as mobile. Peralta can NOT do that, so I see him as a 3B now in his career.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    K-zoo
    Posts
    1,156
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by kokes View Post
    I'll take over for T$$$ if he and you don't mind.

    When Peralta first came up he was a SS. Since then, he's put on weight and aged, which I hurts a SS the most. His personal range has gone down a lot over the last 4 years, granted as far as making the plays, he has soft hands. He can still get to routine balls, but you need your SS to get to the balls that are going up the middle or in between him and 3B, Peralta can't do that now.

    As for the argument about the 3B effecting his range, no. The only thing a 3B with good range does it get to balls the SS can't reach. It has nothing to do with the SS individual range. Whether Peralta has Cabrera beside him or Lawrie, his range and abilities will not change. He would still get to the same amount of balls.

    IMO, the way I look at D is this. Mainly, a 3B is usually power hitter(3-6 hitters) so most of the time has a little more size so isn't going to give you a lot of range side-to-side. The SS should be able to cover more ground than anybody and make up for the fact that 3B aren't as mobile. Peralta can NOT do that, so I see him as a 3B now in his career.
    kokes, you know I don't mind...and the highlighted portion of your comment above is exactly what I am talking about...thanks for saying it in a different way that I have been. And unfortunately for Peralta if he is a 3B he should be compared to other 3-6 hitters and he does not stack up...plain and simple. Done.
    Last edited by T $$$; 12-08-2012 at 11:27 AM.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,448
    vCash
    1500
    Range Factor (commonly abbreviated RF) is a baseball statistic developed by Bill James. It is calculated by dividing putouts and assists by the number of innings or games played at a given defense position. The statistic is premised on the notion that the total number of outs in which a player participates is more relevant in evaluating that player's defensive play than the percentage of cleanly handled chances as calculated by the conventional statistic fielding percentage.

    My concern with RF is that it divides the number of games into the putouts + assists which would assume that all shortstops see the same amount of opportunities per game. It also gives credit for putouts which don't really evaluate range. Even using RF, JP is the middle of the pack which would support my claim that he has average range. The 15th ranked RF is Clint Barmes with a 4.24 who if I'm understanding this correctly had 1 more putout/assist per 10 games. I guess I disagree with their interpretation or am completely misunderstanding the stat.

Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •