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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by lolollort View Post
    Virutally Identical stats?

    10 INT's vs 4 INT's

    Not close...not at all close
    one stat.......................




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  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by JiffyMix88 View Post
    INT%/INT's aren't important.
    When I asked how a Manziel fan could bash Bridgewater's size.


    Quote Originally Posted by flgatorsandjags View Post
    Manziel is shorter than Teddy but he has size 15 feet
    Yeah...it's that bad.

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by lolollort View Post
    Yes because turnovers in the NFL are crucial.
    Yes they are, but it doesn't negate my point. Brett Favre threw a ton of interceptions, but there isn't a team in the league that wouldn't have wanted him as their QB. It's not the end all and be all, the rest of their stats are very similar.

    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    Yeah I'd rather have my QB have a 4% higher comp percentage and have 6 more turnovers too.

    Brady leads the league in INT% Peyton is tied with MATT STAFFORD
    In a vacuum I agree with that, but there are several other factors. First of all, Denver has played the league's second hardest schedule (behind the Giants), New England has played the league's easiest schedule. Brady also has a far better supporting cast than Manning. Demaryius Thomas is a very good receiver, but after him they have Decker who's pretty mediocre, two cast off tight ends, a pulled out of retirement Brandon Stokley and a very mediocre running game. Brady has the two tight ends (who have missed time, but not at the same time), Welker, Lloyd, Edelman and Ridley who has emerged as a really good RB. He even has Woodhead who's a really dangerous receiving back.
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  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinnsanity View Post
    Yes they are, but it doesn't negate my point. Brett Favre threw a ton of interceptions, but there isn't a team in the league that wouldn't have wanted him as their QB. It's not the end all and be all, the rest of their stats are very similar.
    Just going to get this off my chest, but Favre may be one of the most overrated players in the history of the NFL. Even some Packers fans feel that way too.



    In a vacuum I agree with that, but there are several other factors. First of all, Denver has played the league's second hardest schedule (behind the Giants), New England has played the league's easiest schedule. Brady also has a far better supporting cast than Manning. Demaryius Thomas is a very good receiver, but after him they have Decker who's pretty mediocre, two cast off tight ends, a pulled out of retirement Brandon Stokley and a very mediocre running game. Brady has the two tight ends (who have missed time, but not at the same time), Welker, Lloyd, Edelman and Ridley who has emerged as a really good RB. He even has Woodhead who's a really dangerous receiving back.

    Why are we using scheduling rankings from before the season began? The Broncos schedule is nearly a cake walk now. The AFC West is currently the only division in which combining all of their teams records together you end up with a losing record.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinnsanity View Post
    In a vacuum I agree with that, but there are several other factors. First of all, Denver has played the league's second hardest schedule (behind the Giants), New England has played the league's easiest schedule. Brady also has a far better supporting cast than Manning. Demaryius Thomas is a very good receiver, but after him they have Decker who's pretty mediocre, two cast off tight ends, a pulled out of retirement Brandon Stokley and a very mediocre running game. Brady has the two tight ends (who have missed time, but not at the same time), Welker, Lloyd, Edelman and Ridley who has emerged as a really good RB. He even has Woodhead who's a really dangerous receiving back.
    Meh, someone just posted the QB ratings against and it's very close. Again that's not perfect either but I don't thing SOS means anything here.

    Overall NE has more offensive talent certainly. I just don't know if it's that much that Peyton should throw INTs at over twice the rate. Brady's often found a way to keep the INTs low. He should be given props for that not. Instead we make excuses.
    When I asked how a Manziel fan could bash Bridgewater's size.


    Quote Originally Posted by flgatorsandjags View Post
    Manziel is shorter than Teddy but he has size 15 feet
    Yeah...it's that bad.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    Yeah I'd rather have my QB have a 4% higher comp percentage and have 6 more turnovers too.

    Brady leads the league in INT% Peyton is tied with MATT STAFFORD and behind such greats as Kevin Kolb, Joe Flacco, Nick Foles, and Josh Freeman.

    So yes, let the smart people talk please.
    You say that like he's having an awful season. He's tied for 9th in int%. As for Foles and Kolb, neither has thrown more than 200 passes. Kind of a small sample size don't you think? I'd imagine if Kevin Kolb were playing he'd be throwing all of the interceptions Skelton and Lindley have been throwing for the past few weeks, and as for Foles I think he'll throw a few more these next few weeks because teams have more film on him. Flacco is a game manager, so of course he's not going to throw many interceptions. I can't explain Freeman, but he's had such a weird career so far that we can't establish a norm for him. Maybe this is just a number he's going to hover around. Either that or this is an outlier and he's going to regress next year.
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  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinnsanity View Post
    You say that like he's having an awful season. He's tied for 9th in int%. As for Foles and Kolb, neither has thrown more than 200 passes. Kind of a small sample size don't you think? I'd imagine if Kevin Kolb were playing he'd be throwing all of the interceptions Skelton and Lindley have been throwing for the past few weeks, and as for Foles I think he'll throw a few more these next few weeks because teams have more film on him. Flacco is a game manager, so of course he's not going to throw many interceptions. I can't explain Freeman, but he's had such a weird career so far that we can't establish a norm for him. Maybe this is just a number he's going to hover around. Either that or this is an outlier and he's going to regress next year.
    Freeman has always protected the ball. He's a pretty smart albeit conservative QB.

    Stafford was the telling one for me. I should have left it at that.


    I'm not at all saying awful season. I'm saying when the other stats are all so pretty close and you see something like that. It becomes telling even if it is one stat.


    That all being said, I would not vote for Tom Brady for MVP as it stands. I may change my mind. I lean towards AP at this point with Peyton pretty close. I don't think Peyton is going to move for me though so AP has to drop off or Brady keep playing tremendous.
    Last edited by Norm; 12-12-2012 at 03:49 PM.
    When I asked how a Manziel fan could bash Bridgewater's size.


    Quote Originally Posted by flgatorsandjags View Post
    Manziel is shorter than Teddy but he has size 15 feet
    Yeah...it's that bad.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    Meh, someone just posted the QB ratings against and it's very close. Again that's not perfect either but I don't thing SOS means anything here.

    Overall NE has more offensive talent certainly. I just don't know if it's that much that Peyton should throw INTs at over twice the rate. Brady's often found a way to keep the INTs low. He should be given props for that not. Instead we make excuses.
    Brady played a MUCH tougher slate of pass defenses look at my post in the other thread.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by B'sCeltsPatsSox View Post
    Just going to get this off my chest, but Favre may be one of the most overrated players in the history of the NFL. Even some Packers fans feel that way too.
    I agree that he's overrated, but he's a hall of famer. You can make up for throwing interceptions, and Manning certainly doesn't at Favre's rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by B'sCeltsPatsSox View Post
    Why are we using scheduling rankings from before the season began? The Broncos schedule is nearly a cake walk now. The AFC West is currently the only division in which combining all of their teams records together you end up with a losing record.
    I couldn't find current numbers so you can take it with a grain of salt, but Denver has still had to play Pittsburgh, New England, Atlanta, Houston, Tampa, New Orleans, Cincy and Baltimore (this week). I think their recent easy schedule has been overrated, they're just making it look easy by winning every week. I'd certainly take New England's schedule over that.

    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    Meh, someone just posted the QB ratings against and it's very close. Again that's not perfect either but I don't thing SOS means anything here.

    Overall NE has more offensive talent certainly. I just don't know if it's that much that Peyton should throw INTs at over twice the rate. Brady's often found a way to keep the INTs low. He should be given props for that not. Instead we make excuses.
    The QB ratings are 104.2 (Brady) to 104 (Manning). They're virtually identical. Brady definitely does deserve credit for limiting turnovers and I'm not trying to deny him that, but it's one stat. Peyton also deserves credit for consistently moving the chains with a higher completion percentage and for throwing the ball down field more. Remember, he had the noodle arm early in the year, his Y/A would be even higher if he was at full strength in September. Brady may be first in INT% to Manning being 9th, but Manning is second in completion percentage (and he would be first if Alex Smith weren't benched) with Brady 8th. Both of those stats mean something, as does Y/A. I don't think there's necessarily a right answer as to who has been better this year because they've been so close in so many ways, but my MVP vote goes to Manning because of the schedule and supporting cast.
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  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    Number 1 nobody reads a defense like he does.
    Number 2 while others are good students of the game he is a great student. No one prepares for a game as much as he does, and if you are truly a football fan you have heard of how meticulous and demanding manning is each and every practice.
    Number 3 brady has had better coaches and teams. Thats why hes won more superbowls (well that and the patriots are a bunch of skeezy cheaters). Manning has won 4 mvp's though so brady hasnt done everythin peyton has.
    Number 4 none of those qb's you mentioned recieve 0 credit... they are all elite qb's lol
    when peyton was throwing to clark, wayne, harrison, addai and various others what was brady throwing to? doug gabriel and jabar gaffney.. tell me again how brady had better teams? and brady has been MVP before and has a shot this season, just because he hasn't done it as many times doesn't mean he hasnt done it. If you want to say peytons better, go for it, its a very very good debate, but give actual intelligent reasons and stop with the blind hatred

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinnsanity View Post
    The QB ratings are 104.2 (Brady) to 104 (Manning). They're virtually identical. Brady definitely does deserve credit for limiting turnovers and I'm not trying to deny him that, but it's one stat. Peyton also deserves credit for consistently moving the chains with a higher completion percentage and for throwing the ball down field more. Remember, he had the noodle arm early in the year, his Y/A would be even higher if he was at full strength in September. Brady may be first in INT% to Manning being 9th, but Manning is second in completion percentage (and he would be first if Alex Smith weren't benched) with Brady 8th. Both of those stats mean something, as does Y/A. I don't think there's necessarily a right answer as to who has been better this year because they've been so close in so many ways, but my MVP vote goes to Manning because of the schedule and supporting cast.
    A. New England dominates all other teams in first down %age and 3rd down %age IIRC. I'll see if I can find those stats again. I've seen them and they were #1

    B. Brady has a higher deep ball percentage than Peyton Manning.
    When I asked how a Manziel fan could bash Bridgewater's size.


    Quote Originally Posted by flgatorsandjags View Post
    Manziel is shorter than Teddy but he has size 15 feet
    Yeah...it's that bad.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot Pride View Post
    Brady played a MUCH tougher slate of pass defenses look at my post in the other thread.
    I don't agree with you that it's much tougher though. Better, sure.

    More factors are at play than just QB rating against though.
    When I asked how a Manziel fan could bash Bridgewater's size.


    Quote Originally Posted by flgatorsandjags View Post
    Manziel is shorter than Teddy but he has size 15 feet
    Yeah...it's that bad.

  13. #208
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    it may just be me but ive never read a peyton manning thread that doesnt turn into a brady vs manning thread and same for tom brady threads

  14. #209
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    Y/A, yards, blah blah blah are such skewed stats because they don't intangibles and strategy into account.

    one example: If you play in a dink and dunk O your y/a is going to be lower.

    4% comp more in 500 passes = 20 more passes completed. Huge impact on a single game right?

    What matters in Offensive yards are these two main things:

    Time off the clock (like at the end of the game, 2 min O where you need a score etc.) a stat that isn't easily measured.

    And

    How many points it leads to. The job of your Offense is to ultimately score. The Pats O has 49 TD's 20 rushing TD's and 29 Passing TD's, the Broncos have 37 TD's 30 Passing TD's and 7 rushing TD's.
    Rushing yards for the patrions are ~1800, and ~1300 for the broncos.

    Looking at this you'll see that Brady's O uses their yards more EFFECTIVELY that Peyton.

    Do you want to talk turnovers?
    Brady hasn't lost a fumble.
    Manning has lost two.

    4 INT's for Brady.
    10 INT's for manning.

    12 Turnovers for Manning
    4 Turnovers for Brady

    As it is evidently clear Brady has not done the worst thing you can do for your team (turn the ball over) as much as Manning has. (not saying he is equal to turnover tony by any means) While leading his Offense (the job of a QB) to more points than Manning has.

    Conclusively, Tom Brady has been the better QB of this season THUS FAR.

    Albeit, I still think that AD is more VALUABLE to his team than any of these two.


    TL;DR
    The Brady's O has 12 more TD's than Peyton's O

    and

    Tom Brady has 8 less turnovers than Peyton.
    Last edited by lolollort; 12-12-2012 at 05:01 PM.

    PSD's Shane Vereen.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by B'sCeltsPatsSox View Post
    Just going to get this off my chest, but Favre may be one of the most overrated players in the history of the NFL. Even some Packers fans feel that way too.






    Why are we using scheduling rankings from before the season began? The Broncos schedule is nearly a cake walk now. The AFC West is currently the only division in which combining all of their teams records together you end up with a losing record.
    hard to be overrated when everyone calls you overrated.
    When I asked how a Manziel fan could bash Bridgewater's size.


    Quote Originally Posted by flgatorsandjags View Post
    Manziel is shorter than Teddy but he has size 15 feet
    Yeah...it's that bad.

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