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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    I didn't leave out anything. Peyton has the QB numbers pre 2007 and Brady has them post.

    Meanwhile you were trying to claim that Manning was better inside and outsdie then Brady which is a giant crock..... So what's your excuse for trying to mislead people there?



    Sorry maybe you don't know that I've seen QB's play since 1966. In the entire history of football Manning doesn't rate in the top 3, that's absurd.



    You already said it, and it's bogus. A hugely paid QB that was put on the field, played. Fact, if he did not that he might have had that year in his next year and so on, and he might just be one big year short now. Too bad.



    Also worth adding you were wrong about outside and inside previously and Brady is better at both. Better at winning too.
    Not without Manning's rookie year. Which was so by far his worst year that's it's an outlier when looking at his career numbers.

    And again: I'd like to reiterate the fact that 2 points of QB rating in any direction doesn't mean **** in favor of either of them. And no matter how you slice it, that's really what we're talking about here. And again, the two of them are ****ing both top 3 QB's of all time, quite possible #1 and #2 in the history of the game. So it doesn't even ****ing matter. Anyone trying to discredit either of them in any fashion is completely insane.
    Last edited by Doogolas; 12-07-2012 at 04:28 PM.

    And then. He made them pancakes.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doogolas View Post
    Not without Manning's rookie year. Which was so by far his worst year that's it's an outlier when looking at his career numbers.

    And again: I'd like to reiterate the fact that 2 points of QB rating in any direction doesn't mean **** in favor of either of them. And no matter how you slice it, that's really what we're talking about here. And again, the two of them are ****ing both top 3 QB's of all time, quite possible #1 and #2 in the history of the game. So it doesn't even ****ing matter. Anyone trying to discredit either of them in any fashion is completely insane.
    Really? Because it is pretty easy to discredit Peyton's losing record in the playoffs and the SB run he had where he threw 3 TD's and 7 INT'S for a QB rating of 70.
    Last edited by Patriot Pride; 12-07-2012 at 04:39 PM.

  3. #78
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    Great points OP. Love it.

    I think the NFL has tried to build him as the main role model of the league since he was a rookie. The media and fans have gone with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seppuku View Post
    Hear ye, hear ye! Bring forth the possibly real and possibly imaginary poll.



    Oops, I wasn't bull****ting.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by pats2009 View Post
    all i've heard this year is "peyton is better than ever"( mike mayok last night) ron jaworski this morning on mike and mike" peyton is the best quarterback in the league" aand mike greenberg, sterling sharpe, trent dilfer say that" denver is the best team in the afc" when they have lost to every team in front of them. peyton manning is one of the best regular season qb's ever, but how come he is the "sure fire mvp this year" when brady has done more with a ton of injuries. manning had a sub-par game last night and if brady had that kind of a game then brady would be criticized. brees is more accurate, rodgers is more mobile and can create better, and brady is better at everything else. because manning does buick and papa johns commercials and audibles at the line of scrimmage and beats up on oakland twice, kansas city, tampa, san diego twice, and a beat up new orleans team in their 8 game win streak then he is by far the mvp and the face of the nfl. it is almost as tiring as hearing crap about the jets and tebow. but maybe thats me.
    I think if Tom can play well in his next two games and if we win them both he'll get some MVP consideration.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doogolas View Post
    Not without Manning's rookie year. Which was so by far his worst year that's it's an outlier when looking at his career numbers.

    And again: I'd like to reiterate the fact that 2 points of QB rating in any direction doesn't mean **** in favor of either of them. And no matter how you slice it, that's really what we're talking about here. And again, the two of them are ****ing both top 3 QB's of all time, quite possible #1 and #2 in the history of the game. So it doesn't even ****ing matter. Anyone trying to discredit either of them in any fashion is completely insane.
    OK, let's say that +/- 2 points in QB Rating means little or nothing. When are you going to tackle the issue that Brady has a much bigger lead than 2 points in Dome games then Manning AND a bigger than 2 point lead in outside games?

    What about playoff games?

    Manning has 3 games at or under 39.6: 39.6, 35.5, 31.2

    Brady's worst 3 games are: 57.6, 57.5, 49.1

    That's more than "2" right? Also Brady has played deeper into the playoffs than Manning, meaning he has likely faced tougher teams.

    You need to learn more about the history of the game if you think that Brady and Manning both sit in the top 3. The only way to judge is vs the QB's opponents and other QB's in his time.

    OK, so tell me how either one is near as great as:

    Mr. X: 10 years played - with 10 Championship games and 7 titles, with a Rate+ above either of them, and a QB Rating that's the highest of any QB that retired before 1994. Give up? Otto Graham.

    Check out Bart Starr, Baugh, Roger Staubach, and Montana too - all better than Manning as a total package. Marino and Young are all in the argument with Manning, but all behind Brady. Unitas, Elway, Favre, Tarkenton, Kelly, Jurgensen, and others behind them.

    You see even when he hasn't played well in the playoffs, Brady never ceased being a leader or a man. Manning in Foxboro two years in a row peed his panties - ranting, whining and gesticulating all over the sidelines and then throwing his OL under the bus at the presser in one of them - anything and everything but lead. Manning simply failed the nerve test of a leader. That's unforgivable and unpardonable when placing QB's into tier 1. Can't do it, his record just backs it up - 9-10 isn't top tier stuff - so sorry.

    You want to argue top all time QB's you'll need to expand your horizon, or qualify yourself to a post 1975 list.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    OK, let's say that +/- 2 points in QB Rating means little or nothing. When are you going to tackle the issue that Brady has a much bigger lead than 2 points in Dome games then Manning AND a bigger than 2 point lead in outside games?

    What about playoff games?

    Manning has 3 games at or under 39.6: 39.6, 35.5, 31.2

    Brady's worst 3 games are: 57.6, 57.5, 49.1

    That's more than "2" right? Also Brady has played deeper into the playoffs than Manning, meaning he has likely faced tougher teams.

    You need to learn more about the history of the game if you think that Brady and Manning both sit in the top 3. The only way to judge is vs the QB's opponents and other QB's in his time.

    OK, so tell me how either one is near as great as:

    Mr. X: 10 years played - with 10 Championship games and 7 titles, with a Rate+ above either of them, and a QB Rating that's the highest of any QB that retired before 1994. Give up? Otto Graham.

    Check out Bart Starr, Baugh, Roger Staubach, and Montana too - all better than Manning as a total package. Marino and Young are all in the argument with Manning, but all behind Brady. Unitas, Elway, Favre, Tarkenton, Kelly, Jurgensen, and others behind them.

    You see even when he hasn't played well in the playoffs, Brady never ceased being a leader or a man. Manning in Foxboro two years in a row peed his panties - ranting, whining and gesticulating all over the sidelines and then throwing his OL under the bus at the presser in one of them - anything and everything but lead. Manning simply failed the nerve test of a leader. That's unforgivable and unpardonable when placing QB's into tier 1. Can't do it, his record just backs it up - 9-10 isn't top tier stuff - so sorry.

    You want to argue top all time QB's you'll need to expand your horizon, or qualify yourself to a post 1975 list.
    I'm too lazy to argue with people that won't give one of the greatest of all time credit, or puts more credence into maybe 4 bad games in a sample of 17 than literally a few hundred others. It's ****ing insane, especially given that Peyton has a better QB Rating in the playoffs than Playoff God Tom Brady, who has had much better defenses in his career. Do people honestly think playoffs are won by one man?

    Dan Marino sure must have sucked too.

    It's one thing not to like a guy, it's another to overlook and not appreciate greatness. The latter is just ****ing annoying.

    And then. He made them pancakes.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by RateSports View Post
    I know every Bronco/Colt fan will not pay any attention to what I am about to say, but thats fine.

    Why does Peyton Manning consistently receive more credit for doing exactly what other QBs do?

    I am speaking of :

    • Audibles at the line of scrimmage
    • Being a good student of the game


    and his on-field play :

    • Brady has done everything Peyton has… and more
    • His lack of postseason success
    • Rogers, Brees have just as many rings


    I am NOT saying Peyton is overrated because he is one of the best QBs of all-time. I am just curious as to why the media (ESPN and so forth) continue to praise him for doing things that plenty of QBs do.

    Brady, Rogers and Brees audible just as much as Manning does but no one seems to notice.

    Rogers, Brees, Brady, Ben, Eli, Ryan are all studying game film religiously and receive zero credit.

    I feel like if Manning has a good season (in today's case, great season) he will ALWAYS be the front-runner for MVP even if he is outperformed (look up his last MVP and tell me who really deserved it).

    The neck surgery recovery is incredible and it is an amazing story but it isn't the reason he is receiving as much praise as he is getting. He was praised and worshipped every single year before that.
    Lost me at "Rogers"

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot Pride View Post
    Really? Because it is pretty easy to discredit Peyton's losing record in the playoffs and the SB run he had where he threw 3 TD's and 7 INT'S for a QB rating of 70.
    oh thats right... bradys playoff record has nothing to do with a better team, and a better coach. not to mention the fact that the patriots are by far the skeeziest team in the nfl that crosses the line of integrity any time they please as long as as it results in a win. how many superbowls has brady won after teams started taking the patriots coaches and they got caught cheating? 0.

    MVP's

    Manning: 4
    Brady: 2

    thats all that matters

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doogolas View Post
    I'm too lazy to argue with people that won't give one of the greatest of all time credit, or puts more credence into maybe 4 bad games in a sample of 17 than literally a few hundred others. It's ****ing insane, especially given that Peyton has a better QB Rating in the playoffs than Playoff God Tom Brady, who has had much better defenses in his career. Do people honestly think playoffs are won by one man?

    Dan Marino sure must have sucked too.

    It's one thing not to like a guy, it's another to overlook and not appreciate greatness. The latter is just ****ing annoying.
    patriot fans do... that one man for them is adam vinitari lol

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    oh thats right... bradys playoff record has nothing to do with a better team, and a better coach. not to mention the fact that the patriots are by far the skeeziest team in the nfl that crosses the line of integrity any time they please as long as as it results in a win. how many superbowls has brady won after teams started taking the patriots coaches and they got caught cheating? 0.

    MVP's

    Manning: 4
    Brady: 2

    thats all that matters
    You could also say, "How many Superbowls have the Pats one since Brady actually became an elite QB?" The answer is 0. He was a solid QB when he had amazing teams around him that won the Super Bowls.

    And then. He made them pancakes.

  11. #86
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    Why is Manning mentioned in the same sentence as Tebow?

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhlyHighPhilly View Post
    Lost me at "Rogers"
    Carlos Rogers hits the film room religiously.
    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    This is getting old. Enough is enough. Redskin Is not offensive and it will never change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    I want to start a website where people who say this video tape themselves going up to Native Americans and go "hey what's up redskin?" and then upload what happens.

    I'll call it WhatsUpRedskin.com



    You want to go first?
    I fully support this future site.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieHardColtsfan View Post
    Honestly. I have my own feelings about the guy, which I'm sure you can pick up by my user name.

    To answer your questions,

    The truth is he's the golden boy. He is the perfect face of the NFL. The NFL loves players like Peyton and sulk in it. He's more than a QB. He abides by the rules, student of the game, coaches pet, book worm, gym rat, work ethic like no other, well respected human being amongst his peers (including owners, coaches, teammates, opposition teammates, corporate level etc.), he has the blood line in the NFL, he handles the media excellent, he says all the right things, he's been fortunate enough to not have HC’s or other payers with their own storylines. The list goes on.

    The NFL of course jumps on the "poster boy" image. It sells the brand.

    Remember, Peyton didn’t ask for this.

    More direct, look at his WR corps in the beginning of the year. Look how sloppy it was. Just watch the first 3 games of the year. Look at them now. It's remarkable how much he works with these guys. It's a well-oiled machine, fluid. He increases everyone's play around him. Hence, making a winning team. Hence, the NFL loves winning.
    Everything you said is all good stuff. This could also be used to describe Brady, Rodgers, and Brees as well, IMO.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Quote Originally Posted by Cole.World.9.27 View Post
    Brady is not a difference-maker or a playmaker. He's a product of the system who happens to play the QB position.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by pats2009 View Post
    all i've heard this year is "peyton is better than ever"( mike mayok last night) ron jaworski this morning on mike and mike" peyton is the best quarterback in the league" aand mike greenberg, sterling sharpe, trent dilfer say that" denver is the best team in the afc" when they have lost to every team in front of them. peyton manning is one of the best regular season qb's ever, but how come he is the "sure fire mvp this year" when brady has done more with a ton of injuries. manning had a sub-par game last night and if brady had that kind of a game then brady would be criticized. brees is more accurate, rodgers is more mobile and can create better, and brady is better at everything else. because manning does buick and papa johns commercials and audibles at the line of scrimmage and beats up on oakland twice, kansas city, tampa, san diego twice, and a beat up new orleans team in their 8 game win streak then he is by far the mvp and the face of the nfl. it is almost as tiring as hearing crap about the jets and tebow. but maybe thats me.
    this.

    Monday night will be the game that brady separates himself from manning for MVP. If he has a stellar night against an excellent d, manning will still be slinging it against bad defenses. And lets also not forget about SF. Those 2 games will really show everyone who the MVP is, IMO.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Quote Originally Posted by Cole.World.9.27 View Post
    Brady is not a difference-maker or a playmaker. He's a product of the system who happens to play the QB position.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post

    MVP's

    Manning: 4
    Brady: 2

    thats all that matters
    That's all that matters? I learn something new everyday.

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