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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinstripe power View Post
    what advantage? how has that stragety faired for us as we have used it? we have 1 world series in the last 12 years, using that stargey of buy buy buy. thats not how you win anymore
    Them spending is what has kept them competitive. They don't develop talent like the Rays. Their team isn't built like the Twins in the middle to late 2000s. Their one advantage is ,money and it has always been since Ruth to A-rod. Does anyone honestly believe that the team will remain competitive while limiting the payroll with the farm being not nearly as fruitful as they want you to believe?
    Friend: I think the NBA payed off the Heat in the first yr because of the politics. They threw game four and they payed Lebron because they were angry with what he did. So he had pay one way or another.

    F:There is no one in the draft coming out and trading players isn't going to happen. The Lakers are in trouble.

    F: Vogel doesn't run that team. Shaw does. If he leaves they are going to suck and Vogel will get fired.

    -Heat fan


  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by leoharris View Post
    To be fair......we've almost-developed, acquired, drafted a bunch of studs who've turned out to be crap or get hurt. The list is endless.

    That's not Hals fault.

    It's also not Hals fault that he fields a good enough team to win the division the last 10-11 years or whatever and fail in the playoffs.

    If I were him, I'd be irritated that I have to waste tens of millions to put band aids on it.

    But then again, it's also part of the business of attracting fans to a stellar product. You've got to pay to play!

    So, in summary, we've had a good run......we can live with a stop gap years.
    Let me fix that
    Friend: I think the NBA payed off the Heat in the first yr because of the politics. They threw game four and they payed Lebron because they were angry with what he did. So he had pay one way or another.

    F:There is no one in the draft coming out and trading players isn't going to happen. The Lakers are in trouble.

    F: Vogel doesn't run that team. Shaw does. If he leaves they are going to suck and Vogel will get fired.

    -Heat fan


  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigCityofDreams View Post
    Let me fix that
    I'm fine with 2. That's my limit.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigCityofDreams View Post
    Them spending is what has kept them competitive. They don't develop talent like the Rays. Their team isn't built like the Twins in the middle to late 2000s. Their one advantage is ,money and it has always been since Ruth to A-rod. Does anyone honestly believe that the team will remain competitive while limiting the payroll with the farm being not nearly as fruitful as they want you to believe?
    making the playoffs doesn't make you competive when they entire team stops hitting come playoff time, whcih has happend quite frequently recently. you keep saying limiting payroll, we are still spending almost 200 mil. it only looks bad now because we have to many albatross contracts on the books. once they are gone, this model will work no problem. in the mean time, we have to many problems for a quick fix, so why spend 50+ million extra for a team that at best will get embarassingly bounced in the playoffs again
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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigCityofDreams View Post
    Let me fix that
    2 down years is a small price to pay to fix the organizations problem. that would still be 14 playoff appreances in 17 years if we miss the next too.



    and we wonder why we are called a spoiled fan base. its crap like this that makes other fans hate yankee fans.............
    30 Team Stadium Checklist: 10 to go

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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by leoharris View Post
    I'm fine with 2. That's my limit.
    It might be more than that though and that's the risk they are taking. Fans can live with a transition yr but they won't be able to live with 3rd place finishes for 3-4 seasons.
    Friend: I think the NBA payed off the Heat in the first yr because of the politics. They threw game four and they payed Lebron because they were angry with what he did. So he had pay one way or another.

    F:There is no one in the draft coming out and trading players isn't going to happen. The Lakers are in trouble.

    F: Vogel doesn't run that team. Shaw does. If he leaves they are going to suck and Vogel will get fired.

    -Heat fan


  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinstripe power View Post
    the team ahrdly ever shows up in the playoffs though. this isn't the first time they didnt hit and its not the first tiem they were embarassed. part of the problem is over priced free agents and not building continutiy with the team through bringing up you own players. thats why the late 1990s teams were so good, a sound nucleus from with in
    Small sample size, the late 90's were an exception, not the rule.
    THE GOAT

    Until a player reaches these PA numbers, lets not talk about how good they are.


    The Following PA's are when sample size stabilizes

    50 PA: Swing %
    100 PA: Contact Rate
    150 PA: Strikeout Rate, Line Drive Rate, Pitches/PA
    200 PA: Walk Rate, Groundball Rate, GB/FB
    250 PA: Flyball Rate
    300 PA: Home Run Rate, HR/FB
    500 PA: OBP, SLG, OPS, 1B Rate, Popup Rate
    550 PA: ISO

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigCityofDreams View Post
    It might be more than that though and that's the risk they are taking. Fans can live with a transition yr but they won't be able to live with 3rd place finishes for 3-4 seasons.
    you act liek we have already finsihed in thrid. we could easily still finish in 1st or 2nmd this eyar, we still have good pitching and some some talent in the offense. they'll fill in the current holes, so we dont know how good we will be next year
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinstripe power View Post
    making the playoffs doesn't make you competive when they entire team stops hitting come playoff time, whcih has happend quite frequently recently. you keep saying limiting payroll, we are still spending almost 200 mil. it only looks bad now because we have to many albatross contracts on the books. once they are gone, this model will work no problem. in the mean time, we have to many problems for a quick fix, so why spend 50+ million extra for a team that at best will get embarassingly bounced in the playoffs again
    There is no guarantee that will be the case. Most of the albatross contracts come off in 4-5 yrs. CC and A-rod don't come off until 17, Tex until 16. The point of spending the money is them keeping the advantage they have. If you have a trust fund kid that has always relied on money to bail himself out what happens when his parents take the money away and say alright kid go fend for yourself.



    Quote Originally Posted by Pinstripe power View Post
    2 down years is a small price to pay to fix the organizations problem. that would still be 14 playoff appreances in 17 years if we miss the next too.



    and we wonder why we are called a spoiled fan base. its crap like this that makes other fans hate yankee fans.............
    It could be more than two yrs. Fans had a problem with 08. Hell the players on the team had a problem with 08. Damon and company were upset about having Generation Trey making starts for them. Think about that. The team never missed a playoff series until that season and fans and players look at that yr as a virus. I liked that yr because of seeing the kids play.

    Other fans hate the Yankees because they don't have their financial reach. The same ppl complaining would be cheering if their teams spent money. Hell the Twins are a small market team and their owner is/was worth billions.
    Friend: I think the NBA payed off the Heat in the first yr because of the politics. They threw game four and they payed Lebron because they were angry with what he did. So he had pay one way or another.

    F:There is no one in the draft coming out and trading players isn't going to happen. The Lakers are in trouble.

    F: Vogel doesn't run that team. Shaw does. If he leaves they are going to suck and Vogel will get fired.

    -Heat fan


  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinstripe power View Post
    you act liek we have already finsihed in thrid. we could easily still finish in 1st or 2nmd this eyar, we still have good pitching and some some talent in the offense. they'll fill in the current holes, so we dont know how good we will be next year
    Well if they replace the players they lost with lesser players there is a good chance they will be worse. Let make this clear I'm not a sign every player guy. I like watching the kids play but I realize the Yankees need money to be who they are.
    Friend: I think the NBA payed off the Heat in the first yr because of the politics. They threw game four and they payed Lebron because they were angry with what he did. So he had pay one way or another.

    F:There is no one in the draft coming out and trading players isn't going to happen. The Lakers are in trouble.

    F: Vogel doesn't run that team. Shaw does. If he leaves they are going to suck and Vogel will get fired.

    -Heat fan


  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigCityofDreams View Post
    There is no guarantee that will be the case. Most of the albatross contracts come off in 4-5 yrs. CC and A-rod don't come off until 17, Tex until 16. The point of spending the money is them keeping the advantage they have. If you have a trust fund kid that has always relied on money to bail himself out what happens when his parents take the money away and say alright kid go fend for yourself.





    It could be more than two yrs. Fans had a problem with 08. Hell the players on the team had a problem with 08. Damon and company were upset about having Generation Trey making starts for them. Think about that. The team never missed a playoff series until that season and fans and players look at that yr as a virus. I liked that yr because of seeing the kids play.

    Other fans hate the Yankees because they don't have their financial reach. The same ppl complaining would be cheering if their teams spent money. Hell the Twins are a small market team and their owner is/was worth billions.

    we have stop gap guys in place now making a good bit of money in kuroda, pettiette, etc. guys who aren't long term. so the plan in a couple eyars is to have developed young cheap guys to take their place. it takes time. the trust fund example is terrible, no one feels bad for a trust fund spoiled brat learnign what real life is like. thats whats happening with the yankees now, and it is needed


    i did look at 08. we fisnihsed 4th in the AL. if thats your worst year in 15 years, you are doing soemthing right
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigCityofDreams View Post
    Well if they replace the players they lost with lesser players there is a good chance they will be worse. Let make this clear I'm not a sign every player guy. I like watching the kids play but I realize the Yankees need money to be who they are.
    well the only one we know we have to replace at the moment is martin. i dont think that will be that tough. esepcially since we are getting agrdner back, so that is essentially like a free agent signing for us. you act like the team will eb comepltey revamped. the onyl valueable player we are at risk of losing is swisher
    30 Team Stadium Checklist: 10 to go

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  13. #88
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    I think people that think the team is gonna go back to spending big after 1 year of being under the threshold are kidding themselves.

    Unless I am completely missing something the taxes going from 50% to 17% (which I think is what happens if they stay under one year) are really not that huge of a difference.

    If the limit stays the same at 189M and they go to their normal $210 payroll its a $10.5M tax hit with the 50% tax rate and a $3.57M tax hit at 17%. People really think they are doing this to save 7M? The tax hit just seems like a well timed excuse for the team. The bottom line is that they want to lower payroll to save the 40M they save doing that. I don't think it has much to do with the tax hit. Unless I'm missing something huge here.

    BTW, its fine if the Yankees want to lower payroll. I just think they can go about it smarter than they are and not try to do it one shot. If they gradually do it over the next couple years I feel like they'd be in a much better spot for now and the future.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by TallicaFan87 View Post
    I think people that think the team is gonna go back to spending big after 1 year of being under the threshold are kidding themselves.

    Unless I am completely missing something the taxes going from 50% to 17% (which I think is what happens if they stay under one year) are really not that huge of a difference.

    If the limit stays the same at 189M and they go to their normal $210 payroll its a $10.5M tax hit with the 50% tax rate and a $3.57M tax hit at 17%. People really think they are doing this to save 7M? The tax hit just seems like a well timed excuse for the team. The bottom line is that they want to lower payroll to save the 40M they save doing that. I don't think it has much to do with the tax hit. Unless I'm missing something huge here.

    BTW, its fine if the Yankees want to lower payroll. I just think they can go about it smarter than they are and not try to do it one shot. If they gradually do it over the next couple years I feel like they'd be in a much better spot for now and the future.
    It's not just saving $7mil. It's saving $50mil.

    I don't care how much money you have, you'd be a moron not to do what they are doing.

    Now if it doesn't work for several years and they lose? Then, yes, fans can complain.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by leoharris View Post
    It's not just saving $7mil. It's saving $50mil.

    I don't care how much money you have, you'd be a moron not to do what they are doing.

    Now if it doesn't work for several years and they lose? Then, yes, fans can complain.
    $50M as in the 40 in reduced payroll and the 10 in taxes? Thats exactly my point though, they won't be going on a spending spree after 2014 like people seem to think. The savings isn't the tax - its the 40M they cut from the payroll.

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