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  1. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by amos1er View Post
    Sadly the majority of novice NBA fans are also brainwashed into believing this crap...thats why the media gives Lebron added considerations where as they don't with other candidates.
    He's arguably been the most talented player overall if you consider all the players that played after 1998 when Jordan retired. It's just that he hasn't been as successful.

  2. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by amos1er View Post
    Was Garnet the clear cut best player on his team that year?

    Funny how the formation of Garnets big 3 hurt his chances that year, yet whenLebron formed his own even better big 3 he did not receive the same penalty Garnet did in regards to the perceived advantages he had over the other candidates when being considered by the always fair and objective media.

    Garnet was also penalized for playing in the weak eastern conference. Something else that is conveniently never taken into account when it comes to Lebron.

    Durant and CP3 currently both play in a far more difficult conference and still have lead their teams to better records than Lebron's Heat. Funny how Lebron is still ahead on the MVP ladder despite this glaring fact.


    Quote Originally Posted by rhymeratic View Post
    Shoot I'd even put up Glen Rice and Mitch Richmond in their prime at or slightly better than James. Even Glenn Robinson who is a forgotten beast.


    Quote Originally Posted by LoveMeOrHateMe View Post
    Kobe GOAT LOL
    ^Finally got one.

  3. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    The MVP ladder is based on 1 guys opinion. The MVP voting is over a hundred people. Durant will win it as long as the Thunder have the better record and his stats are up to par with Lebron.
    Last year Durant's Thunder had the better record and his stats were on par with Lebron...

    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    Lebron being voted MVP isn't a bad thing since he's technically outplaying Durant and only 2 games behind the Thunder.
    Is he really out playing Durant, or are is stats better. Those are two completely different things. How does Lebron do in head to head matchups against the best players at his position and the best teams in the league. Lebron could easily be padding stats against weaker opponents and getting mediocre stats against the better ones. All these stats your talking about don't account for any of that.

    Being 2 games ahead in the west is like being 6 games ahead if he were in the east. Again, similar to what I said about their stats, you must take the level of competition into account and not just look at the win loss column when making your assessment. Similarly you need to take level of competition into account when comparing their "stats". The better player isn't the one who is better statistically by any means. Durant scores more than Lebron and at a higher TS%. Offensively, Durant is superior and he is much better in the clutch. Defensively I would give Lebron the nod, but since Durant is leading his team to a better record in a more difficult conference and with out the assistance of a "superteam"...I would have to give Durant the nod over Lebron.

    Here is my top 3 for MVP:

    1. CP3
    2. Durant
    3. Lebron
    Last edited by amos1er; 12-30-2012 at 01:55 AM.

  4. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    He's arguably been the most talented player overall if you consider all the players that played after 1998 when Jordan retired. It's just that he hasn't been as successful.
    The key word is arguably. Raw talent has nothing to do with being the best. Being the best is something you prove day in and day out on the court. If he truly is the best since Jordan, the accomplishments should follow. He has the most talented roster in the NBA and with his own individual talent, there should be no more excuses. I would also agree that he is the most well rounded player statistically since Jordan.

  5. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by b@llhog24 View Post
    Yet Pierce won the finals MVP.

  6. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by amos1er View Post
    Yet Pierce won the finals MVP.
    What does FMVP have to do with the reg MVP?


    Quote Originally Posted by rhymeratic View Post
    Shoot I'd even put up Glen Rice and Mitch Richmond in their prime at or slightly better than James. Even Glenn Robinson who is a forgotten beast.


    Quote Originally Posted by LoveMeOrHateMe View Post
    Kobe GOAT LOL
    ^Finally got one.

  7. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by amos1er View Post
    Last year Durant's Thunder had the better record and his stats were on par with Lebron...
    By 1 win. Lebron had a better impact offensively and defensively.

    I meant have a significant better record (like 5 wins or more).


    Is he really out playing Durant, or are is stats better. Those are two completely different things. How does Lebron do in head to head matchups against the best players at his position and the best teams in the league. Lebron could easily be padding stats against weaker opponents and getting mediocre stats against the better ones. All these stats your talking about don't account for any of that.

    Being 2 games ahead in the west is like being 6 games ahead if he were in the east. Again, similar to what I said about their stats, you must take the level of competition into account and not just look at the win loss column when making your assessment. Similarly you need to take level of competition into account when comparing their "stats". The better player isn't the one who is better statistically by any means. Durant scores more than Lebron and at a higher TS%. Offensively, Durant is superior and he is much better in the clutch. Defensively I would give Lebron the nod, but since Durant is leading his team to a better record in a more difficult conference and with out the assistance of a "superteam"...I would have to give Durant the nod over Lebron.
    Lebron has a better impact on the court than Durant is what I meant. He's been better offensively (but it's very close) and defensively this year (and last year, which is why he won).

    Here is my top 3 for MVP:

    1. CP3
    2. Durant
    3. Lebron
    I think the Clippers will slip and Thunder will have the best record in the league and the Heat will have a better record than the Clippers by the end of the season. That's why I think Durant will win, Lebron 2nd, CP3 3rd.

  8. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by amos1er View Post
    Yet Pierce won the finals MVP.
    Winning the FMVP has nothing to do if you're the most talented player or not. FMVP just means you outplayed your teammate in the finals.

  9. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by amos1er View Post
    It's because the MVP criteria is so inconsistent that the award itself looses credibility.
    What Im saying is that its had that credibility from its inception. Wrongful MVP's have been given, I just dont agree with your reasoning for why.


    The media can basically chose whoever they want without adhering to any sort of guidelines and that to me is shady.
    Id like to see the media give the MVP to a .500 team, then maybe this would be true, but its obvious they value certain things unless a great story comes along ala D-Rose, Iverson.


  10. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by amos1er View Post
    Last year Durant's Thunder had the better record and his stats were on par with Lebron...
    Durant 2012: 28.0 ppg 8rpg 3.5 apg with TS% .61 PER 26.2 and WS/48 .230
    Lebron 2012: 27.1 ppg 7.9 rbp 6.2 apg with TS% .605 30.7 PER and WS/48 .298

    I think the stats are definitely on Lebron's side, especially when you then consider his superior defense (there was a bigger gap last year than this year).

    That said so far this year I see 4 people to consider: Durant, Paul, Lebron, Melo. At this moment I'd have melo at the bottom and the others as the top 3. Any order works for now because they all have arguments (cp3 currently best team but but his teammates are playing amazing and he doesn't have to do as much as the other two, Durant great stats great team, Lebron great stats great team). Until we know the final records and stats these three may move around a bit and Melo may come back into play. At this moment I would say Durant, Paul, then Lebron but its very close.

  11. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by amos1er View Post
    Was Garnet the clear cut best player on his team that year?
    The MVP voters seemed to think so.

    Funny how the formation of Garnets big 3 hurt his chances that year, yet whenLebron formed his own even better big 3 he did not receive the same penalty Garnet did in regards to the perceived advantages he had over the other candidates when being considered by the always fair and objective media.
    Your assuming we all believe your unsubstantiated theories, I seem to recall KG being the number 1 guy throughout the majority of the season, it wasn't until his injury and the teams decent showing without him that slid him down the rankings. Also Kobe-CP3 closed out the year with their intriguing storylines and subsequent final game that some voters felt "decided MVP" as laughable as that sounds.

    Durant and CP3 currently both play in a far more difficult conference and still have lead their teams to better records than Lebron's Heat. Funny how Lebron is still ahead on the MVP ladder despite this glaring fact.
    Glaring fact? WHERE?

    I see you reaching and making insinuations that correlate with your opinion of these facts, but it doesn't tell us anything. For example, Im more interested in why the Clippers have been able to perform so well without CP3. Why are you giving CP3 more credit for having to do less? The man doesn't even play most 4th quarters because his backups either get the team back in the game or blow games out of the water. Very rarely has CP3 been asked to do the heavy lifting that Bron has for the Heat. The Heat have needed Bron far more than we've needed CP3.

    I dont know whats with all these Laker fans trying to hype up a Clipper but its an alarming trend. I mean KB-P-D was saying the other day that CP3 has changed his opinion in the CP3 vs Rondo debate with his performance this year, despite the fact that CP3 is playing worse than he did last year and Rondo is actually playing better than his prior year. Obviously CP3 is still the superior player but I dont know whats making people realize this so late in the game. Its as if you guys look at team wins and simply deduce that CP3 is leading his team better. Seems to me like hes had more help.


    Quote Originally Posted by amos1er View Post
    Yet Pierce won the finals MVP.
    So Cornbread Maxwell was his teams best player?

    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    I think you're dead wrong. In order for Lebron to earn it again, he will have to have both the best numbers, play for the best team, and have nobody close on both fronts. Right now KD is still in the drivers seat given his arguably as good or better stats and playing for an arguably as good or better team.
    Agreed, Bron has to go on a tear. KD has this one in the bag IMO


  12. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    Winning the FMVP has nothing to do if you're the most talented player or not. FMVP just means you outplayed your teammate in the finals.
    True, but not always. Sometimes its simply because you got prettier stats.


  13. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ
    I think the Clippers will slip and Thunder will have the best record in the league and the Heat will have a better record than the Clippers by the end of the season. That's why I think Durant will win, Lebron 2nd, CP3 3rd.
    ^All of that.

  14. #554
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    Also, Horford might finish in the Top 10 in voting if he and the Hawks keep it up.

  15. #555
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    Melo's stats are gonna go down because he won't have to score as much when all our guys gets back. I really only see him in the top 4. Unless he goes crazy for a bit.


    Quote Originally Posted by NYK_kidd77 View Post
    Lol how can you guys hate the knicks thats like going to the special olympics and booing.

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