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  1. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    PER? Okay first of all, Durant's PER is 29.3, Lebron's is 30.3. My mathz has that as 1.

    Win Shares is like PER in that it's based on box-score stats, only it attempts to account for the whole game by taking defensive stats into consideration. Has nothing to do with a team stat. Durant > Lebron here. And no, comparing Lebron and KD in terms of TS% is nothing like comparing them to Shaq. They are both SF's. Lebron is a fantastic shooter and shoots over 40% from three this year. Wtf are you talking about? The difference is that along with KD's ridiculous fieldgoal (including 3pt) shooting, he's also just about the best in the league at Free throws. A HUGE part of the game that Lebron simply isn't good at. And that matters if you're trying to win close games... a lot.

    And of course the team record matters dude. Half of the voters conventional wisdom on this vote is "best player on best team". I love that we are to the point where people have to ramp up Lebron's case because his team of Ray Allen, D. Wade, Bosh 'n company is simply not up to par with the Thunder.
    LeBron is a fantastic shooter? I'm a huge LeBron fan but he's not a fantastic shooter. He may have improved his shooting but that doesn't mean he's a good shooter. The % may show him being slightly below Durant in terms of three point percentage, but Durant is averaging more threes and making more. He's not even shooting 40% from three.

    Free throws do matter but no to the point where you can say he's the MVP. In that sense, we should disqualify Shaq because he's not good at it. Those free throw points will fall into Durant's PPG and that is why I don't include it. It's already in his PPG, why state it again?

    Why can't we ramp up LeBron's case if his team isn't performing the way they should? That makes no sense. Swap Kobe with LeBron. Do you think they will have the same success? No, because the team does matter. Durant's team is better than LeBron's.

  2. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    The fact that you included FT% and three point percentage is irrelevant. It all falls down to FG% and PPG.
    According to 1 person and zero statisticians. Why should anyone believe you when it comes to stats?
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  3. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    According to 1 person and zero statisticians. Why should anyone believe you when it comes to stats?
    Whatever. We'll just wait and see who wins it. Because FT% and 5 wins is clearly better than someone who defends the best player each night and has better stats with a team that is declining in terms of Wade and Bosh.

  4. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    LeBron is a fantastic shooter? I'm a huge LeBron fan but he's not a fantastic shooter. He may have improved his shooting but that doesn't mean he's a good shooter. The % may show him being slightly below Durant in terms of three point percentage, but Durant is averaging more threes and making more. He's not even shooting 40% from three.

    Free throws do matter but no to the point where you can say he's the MVP. In that sense, we should disqualify Shaq because he's not good at it. Those free throw points will fall into Durant's PPG and that is why I don't include it. It's already in his PPG, why state it again?

    Why can't we ramp up LeBron's case if his team isn't performing the way they should? That makes no sense. Swap Kobe with LeBron. Do you think they will have the same success? No, because the team does matter. Durant's team is better than LeBron's.
    He was over 40% for most of the year, looks like he just dipped below to 39+%. That is still very, very good. He's also a dead eye mid-range shooter and has been for years. Go do some research on hoopdata if your eye test is failing you. It's one of the biggest misnomers about him that he can't shoot. If you're a big fan and don't know this... you're not a big fan. The bottom line concerning the points per game is that Durant scores more at a higher efficiency when all aspects of scoring are included. Period. End of discussion.

    And again, Win Shares is PER only including defense. And KD > Lebron. Neither are the best stat or the be all end all, but to disregard one and pump up another (while also being wrong on where they stand) is just dumb.

    Hahah - I also like how we're replacing Kobe with Lebron in this scenario rather than Durant. Just stop dude. The Heat are more than stacked enough to compete with the Thunder's roster outside of KD/Lebron. He won't be getting any pity votes due to the weakness of his manufactured All Star team.

    As for Lebron's D, not wildly impressed so far. I think he'll step it up in the playoffs, but he tends to get a little lazy himself on D, especially fighting through screens and in rotations. He's not Tony Allen out there.

  5. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    He was over 40% for most of the year, looks like he just dipped below to 39+%. That is still very, very good. He's also a dead eye mid-range shooter and has been for years. Go do some research on hoopdata if your eye test is failing you. It's one of the biggest misnomers about him that he can't shoot. If you're a big fan and don't know this... you're not a big fan. The bottom line concerning the points per game is that Durant scores more at a higher efficiency when all aspects of scoring are included. Period. End of discussion.

    And again, Win Shares is PER only including defense. And KD > Lebron. Neither are the best stat or the be all end all, but to disregard one and pump up another (while also being wrong on where they stand) is just dumb.

    Hahah - I also like how we're replacing Kobe with Lebron in this scenario rather than Durant. Just stop dude. The Heat are more than stacked enough to compete with the Thunder's roster outside of KD/Lebron. He won't be getting any pity votes due to the weakness of his manufactured All Star team.

    As for Lebron's D, not wildly impressed so far. I think he'll step it up in the playoffs, but he tends to get a little lazy himself on D, especially fighting through screens and in rotations. He's not Tony Allen out there.
    The fact you said LeBron is a good shooter just means you're an idiot. Shooting more threes=lowers your three point percentage. Durant shoots more threes but averages a higher %. Points per game= Durant? Are you an idiot? Give Durant 100 shots, he'll score 104 points. Give LeBron 100 shots and he'll score 112 points. That's not including the free throws and three point, give or take, it'll be at Durant's advantage. Still not equating 8 points there.

  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    The fact you said LeBron is a good shooter just means you're an idiot. Shooting more threes=lowers your three point percentage. Durant shoots more threes but averages a higher %. Points per game= Durant? Are you an idiot? Give Durant 100 shots, he'll score 104 points. Give LeBron 100 shots and he'll score 112 points. That's not including the free throws and three point, give or take, it'll be at Durant's advantage. Still not equating 8 points there.


    Dear god, you're clueless man. You've got a lot to learn about basketball if you think you can just disregard free throws and three point shooting. Not to mention your reasoning for it makes absolutely zero sense.

    Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, and Colin Kaepernick walk into a bar... To watch Russell Wilson win the Super Bowl.

  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    Whatever. We'll just wait and see who wins it. Because FT% and 5 wins is clearly better than someone who defends the best player each night and has better stats with a team that is declining in terms of Wade and Bosh.
    Who said anything about winning MVP? Im talking about your statistical claims. Notice how its all I quoted.
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  8. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    The fact you said LeBron is a good shooter just means you're an idiot.
    Why?
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    The fact you said LeBron is a good shooter just means you're an idiot. Shooting more threes=lowers your three point percentage. Durant shoots more threes but averages a higher %. Points per game= Durant? Are you an idiot? Give Durant 100 shots, he'll score 104 points. Give LeBron 100 shots and he'll score 112 points. That's not including the free throws and three point, give or take, it'll be at Durant's advantage. Still not equating 8 points there.
    just go home son

  10. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    The fact you said LeBron is a good shooter just means you're an idiot. Shooting more threes=lowers your three point percentage. Durant shoots more threes but averages a higher %. Points per game= Durant? Are you an idiot? Give Durant 100 shots, he'll score 104 points. Give LeBron 100 shots and he'll score 112 points. That's not including the free throws and three point, give or take, it'll be at Durant's advantage. Still not equating 8 points there.
    What the hell are you blathering about? Less typing, more lurking.

    Remind me not to respond to these kinds of posters.

  11. #761
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    I am one of Lebron's biggest fans, but there is no doubt that the MVP could and maybe even should go to Durant. I think that Lebron is coasting and I think Durant is Playing his butt off trying to make a statement. I believe Lebron will turn it up as the the season goes on, and just play at a level Durant cant get to and win the MVP and outplay everyone he goes up against in the playoffs and also win another ring. That being said, if Lebron keeps coasting like he is for the rest of the season, the MVP is up for grabs.

  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    I am one of Lebron's biggest fans, but there is no doubt that the MVP could and maybe even should go to Durant. I think that Lebron is coasting and I think Durant is Playing his butt off trying to make a statement. I believe Lebron will turn it up as the the season goes on, and just play at a level Durant cant get to and win the MVP and outplay everyone he goes up against in the playoffs and also win another ring. That being said, if Lebron keeps coasting like he is for the rest of the season, the MVP is up for grabs.
    I think he's playing as good as ever, it's just that KD has done a lot of catching up, and the record will definitely come into play.

  13. #763
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    Still lebron have been the best player and the most valuable to his team, statwise, impact wise.

  14. #764
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    Oh man! I'm just getting back from work and Barkley is announcing the Clippers game! Can't believe I've missed this!

  15. #765
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    If OKC has that big (5/6 games) of a winning margin over Miami then there's no way LeBron gets it over Durant. Durant's advantages:

    1. Voters always look for a new face. They don't like seeing the same face every year.
    2. Durant's all-round game has improved so much that it's astounding we are comparing someone with LeBron statistically. I mean who would have thought of this?

    As of now I think it's Durant over LeBron because of team records. However, I think LeBron will start enforcing himself even more as the season goes by. LeBron and Durant are going to make it one of the toughest and closest MVP races of all-time.

    Can't believe Ocean is playing with tredigs, baller, and chronz. If he's being serious about his statistical claims then all three of you should give up on him already.

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