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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    I think your all forgetting who RA Dickey is?

    He's way way way better than McCarthey (like its not close). There was a reason he was a top 3 pitcher in baseball last year (Based on pretty much any metric) and he's been and he was a very good starter for the two years before (K/BB was very solid).

    Yeah, he's not locked up but that seems likely. He also won't age on a normal curve because of the nuckleball.

    In alot of ways he's a better pitcher than Josh Johnson and a better bet for this club with no injury issues and a workhorse. He's also cheaper this year and on an extension and more likely to resign.
    I'd much rather have Dickey as well. I think he has a few more very good years left. I just worry that he is either not as available as we hear or the Mets want a huge return for him. Otherwise he would be out of there by now.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan View Post
    I'd much rather have Dickey as well. I think he has a few more very good years left. I just worry that he is either not as available as we hear or the Mets want a huge return for him. Otherwise he would be out of there by now.
    Agreed, the return must be somewhat reasonable but Gose and Arencibia I do without flinching

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farsight View Post
    No one is arguing that McCarthy is better than Dickey. His name was mentioned as he is a relatively good free agent who can be signed to a fair contract. As a result, the Jays would not relinquish prospects for his services. That is why his name is intriguing
    Sure but he's a huge health question, and is a much worse pitcher who would cost more money this year and with health problems would be a 2 year commitment.

    I'm not saying we have to get Dickey or McCarthy is a bad idea (but I don't get why people are excited about a pretty mediocre pitcher-why not Happ over him?) but there's a huge difference in talent and therefore we hav eto give up to get him. Also, people dishing on Dickey like he's not one of the best 10 pitchers in the league and more like a #3 starter with alot of issues. The guy was the best (or second best based on a debate) pitcher in the NL last year and led the major leagues in innings and there's no reason to think he's slowing down due to his style and does not hav einjury problems.

  4. #109
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    would anyone be concerned with dickeys knuckleball flattening out in the dome ?


    "I stole and I robbed ....and I kidnapped the President's son and held him for ransom, AND I DIDNT GET CAUGHT NEITHA ! " - Prison Mike

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon32 View Post
    would anyone be concerned with dickeys knuckleball flattening out in the dome ?
    Is there any evidence this happens?

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon32 View Post
    would anyone be concerned with dickeys knuckleball flattening out in the dome ?
    Could they not just setup some huge turbine fans above the outfield fence when he pitches....you know, just below where "the man in white" sits.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon32 View Post
    would anyone be concerned with dickeys knuckleball flattening out in the dome ?
    didn't bother Wakefield, and he threw it like 50 mph., Dickey throws pretty hard for a knuckleballer. And Wakefield pitched till he was like a 100. I would rather have Dickey at 38 here for the next 3 years at , say 12m. per, than Bruehle's contract at 34....11m, 18m, 19m.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjago View Post
    Could they not just setup some huge turbine fans above the outfield fence when he pitches....you know, just below where "the man in white" sits.
    In this economy (I fuggin hear line every decade) the 'man in white' doubles as the fan technician.

  9. #114
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    Reasons I would be fine with acquiring Dickey
    - he should give us 200 innings and everyone else(besides Buerle) are less likely to give us that. Will save our bullpen which is important down the stretch.
    - he has been good for 3 years and throws his knuckleball about 10 mph faster than the average knuckleballer. Imagine how much the opposing hitters timing will be off if Dickey throws one day and Morrow follows him the next. He really would solidify our rotation.
    - the jays have already committed a lot of money and have given up some pretty good prospects. We really need to go for it. Our team is relatively young but reye's speed and bautista's power for example will likely start to decline slowly in a few years. I would like to extend him another 2 years but realize we may have to give up better prospects to do this.
    I don't want to give up D'arnaud but would be fine with Gose and Arencebia.

  10. #115
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    As has been talked about to death, there's very little arm fatique generated from the knuckleball. It doesn't matter what he was throwing before his mid-30's. He has a healthy arm right now, and now he's throwing a pitch that causes little stress on the arm.

    It's injury and/or loss in generated power that does most non-knuckleballers in before their 40th birthday. The reason that the exceptional knuckleballers can pitch into their mid-40's effectively is that neither are concerns. Even if he lost 10 to 15mph off his 80mph knuckleball, he'd still be throwing in the mid-60's.

    The difference between him and a Tim Wakefield is the quality of his knuckleball and his control of it. Niekro isn't in the hall of fame because he threw his knuckleball in the mid-60's. He's in the hall because he mastered the pitch itself. Dickey appears to have not only done that in a few short years, he's way ahead of Neikro in arm strength at the same age, which is why I argue his decline could very well be even further off than guys like Hough or Neikro.
    Last edited by fmradioguy; 12-07-2012 at 07:57 PM.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmradioguy View Post
    As has been talked about to death, there's very little arm fatique generated from the knuckleball. It doesn't matter what he was throwing before his mid-30's. He has a healthy arm right now, and now he's throwing a pitch that causes little stress on the arm.

    It's injury and/or loss in generated power that does most non-knuckleballers in before their 40th birthday. The reason that the exceptional knuckleballers can pitch into their mid-40's effectively is that neither are concerns. Even if he lost 10 to 15mph off his 80mph knuckleball, he'd still be throwing in the mid-60's.

    The difference between him and a Tim Wakefield is the quality of his knuckleball and his control of it. Niekro isn't in the hall of fame because he threw his knuckleball in the mid-60's. He's in the hall because he mastered the pitch itself. Dickey appears to have not only done that in a few short years, he's way ahead of Neikro in arm strength at the same age, which is why I argue his decline could very well be even further off than guys like Hough or Neikro.
    agree 100% ....

  12. #117
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    I don't understand why people think that Dickey won't do well in the AL East. He's a GB pitcher that gets a ton of strikeouts and limits walks. He is a legitimate ace now, and should continue to pitch at a high level for at least 3 more years.

    2010: 2.84 ERA, 55% GB rate, 174 IP in 26 GS
    2011: 3.28 ERA, 51% GB rate, 208 IP in 32 GS
    2012: 2.73 ERA, 46% GB rate, 233 IP in 33 GS

    The reason why his GB rates have gone down a bit is because of his high knuckler he developed. It induces more pop-ups, gets more fly-balls, and way more swing and misses explaining his 12.2% swinging strike rate and 8.86 K/9.

    He is an awesome pitcher willing to sign an extension for 2 years $25-30M, the only reason the Mets haven't re-signed him is because they are trying to explore all trades to fill the many holes we have on this team. If we were closer to contention, we wouldn't even think of dealing him.

    It will take a significant offer to get Dickey, and he will definitely be worth it for the team that eventually gets him.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    I don't understand why people think that Dickey won't do well in the AL East. He's a GB pitcher that gets a ton of strikeouts and limits walks. He is a legitimate ace now, and should continue to pitch at a high level for at least 3 more years.

    2010: 2.84 ERA, 55% GB rate, 174 IP in 26 GS
    2011: 3.28 ERA, 51% GB rate, 208 IP in 32 GS
    2012: 2.73 ERA, 46% GB rate, 233 IP in 33 GS

    The reason why his GB rates have gone down a bit is because of his high knuckler he developed. It induces more pop-ups, gets more fly-balls, and way more swing and misses explaining his 12.2% swinging strike rate and 8.86 K/9.

    He is an awesome pitcher willing to sign an extension for 2 years $25-30M, the only reason the Mets haven't re-signed him is because they are trying to explore all trades to fill the many holes we have on this team. If we were closer to contention, we wouldn't even think of dealing him.

    It will take a significant offer to get Dickey, and he will definitely be worth it for the team that eventually gets him.
    That's not a good thing in our ball park. Doesn't sound encouraging hearing that, I rather the high GB rates


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  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagles4Lyfe View Post
    That's not a good thing in our ball park. Doesn't sound encouraging hearing that, I rather the high GB rates
    ...and low K rates? Why?

    And Dickey is smart enough to make adjustments, but it's not like he is giving up wall-scrapers with the fly-balls, and 46% GBs is still very good. He is still a GB pitcher, just not as extreme as before.

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    Gose isn't ready, clearly. He needs another 300 or 400 AB's in Buffalo.
    Yeah, this is why I'm shocked that people are writing off Gose as a bat that's probably not gonna develop. Dude's 22, not even major league ready, and his bat is arguably his worst tool... obviously his swing is gonna be bad. Chances are that this guy is the next Devon White. Sure that bat itself probably ends up below average at the major league level, but add in 40+ stolen bases each year and potentially amazing defence and you've got yourself a star. I'd project him as a Michael Bourn-type player, with less batting average and more power. And we've got this guy cheap for the next 6 or 7 years.

    Gose is a guy like Mike Olt, someone you might swap straight up for a pitcher like Dickey if you're feeling lucky, but not someone you need to build around to get a deal done.

    Apparently Ken Rosenthal agrees with me:

    Possibility No. 2: Dickey for Blue Jays catcher J.P. Arencibia and center fielder Anthony Gose.

    The Jays definitely would say “no” to this. They would be trading a combined 10 years of control over Arencibia and Gose — both of whom play premium up-the-middle positions — for one year of Dickey.

    Young players such as Gose and the Rangers’ Olt not only are inexpensive, but also offer upside and the possibility of signing club-friendly extensions in the future.
    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/v...termine-120812

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