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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakedajewler View Post
    It would be stupid to give up alot for a 38 year old
    38 is like 30 in knuckleballer years. This guy isn't Tim Wakefield quality. He's a Charlie Hough, maybe even a Phil Niekro quality knuckleballer. He's a harder throwing knuckleballer than any of them. He can be a sub 4.00 era pitcher for the next 5 years if they Jays could sign him to an extension. I'm really surprised at how under-rated he's been as far as trade value. But I wouldn't make a Gose/Arencibia deal unless the Jays could sign him to an extension.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlakeyFool View Post
    Rather trade jp + gose for ike davis
    Seriously?


    The Brilliant Plan of How to Get Andrew Wiggins in a Toronto Uniform
    Quote Originally Posted by deaner View Post
    All I'm saying is the league wants to see Toronto succeeded. An outside chance Silver could say to philly... You know... That's a great trade offer from Toronto for the first pick. It's up to you but we'd love to see wiggins in Toronto.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlakeyFool View Post
    Rather trade jp + gose for ike davis
    yur funny

  4. #34
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    So I might be warming to this a bit, I caution that this is an extremely small sample size, but I went over his numbers vs the AL over the last 3 years as my biggest concern is that he won't hold up against the teams in this league.

    2012 - 3 GS, 2-0, 24 IP, 5 ER, 28K, 5BB (Against BAL, NYY, TB)
    2011 - 4 GS, 2-0, 26 IP, 6 ER, 24K, 9BB (Against DET, NYYx2, OAK)
    2010 - 3 GS, 3-0, 21 IP, 3 ER, 19K, 5BB (Against BAL, CLE, DET)

    Which totals out to: 10 GS - 7-0, 71 IP, 14 ER, 71K, 19BB

    Pretty spectacular numbers. Obviously it's an incredibly small sample, and hitters are likely to fare better against him when they're seeing him a bit more often but still, it's encouraging to see him have that much success against AL competitors.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by con_artist View Post
    So I might be warming to this a bit, I caution that this is an extremely small sample size, but I went over his numbers vs the AL over the last 3 years as my biggest concern is that he won't hold up against the teams in this league.

    2012 - 3 GS, 2-0, 24 IP, 5 ER, 28K, 5BB (Against BAL, NYY, TB)
    2011 - 4 GS, 2-0, 26 IP, 6 ER, 24K, 9BB (Against DET, NYYx2, OAK)
    2010 - 3 GS, 3-0, 21 IP, 3 ER, 19K, 5BB (Against BAL, CLE, DET)

    Which totals out to: 10 GS - 7-0, 71 IP, 14 ER, 71K, 19BB

    Pretty spectacular numbers. Obviously it's an incredibly small sample, and hitters are likely to fare better against him when they're seeing him a bit more often but still, it's encouraging to see him have that much success against AL competitors.
    You can bring up that argument for pretty much any pitcher coming to the East

    But if you want to put money on anyone to break the norm, why not bet on an unconventional pitcher that should be a challenge to everyone, good hitters included

  6. #36
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    Honestly, why not just target Halladay instead of Dickey? I'm pretty sure he could be had for much less. Maybe a package involving JPA, Stilson, and a lower level prospect gets it done.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomber0104 View Post
    You can bring up that argument for pretty much any pitcher coming to the East

    But if you want to put money on anyone to break the norm, why not bet on an unconventional pitcher that should be a challenge to everyone, good hitters included
    I agree that getting Dickey is the right move. For Gose/Arencibia it's a no-brainer, I think we include a spec, (Norris, Stilson, Nolin), if we can get a window to negotiate an extension. This deal gets us a reigning Cy Young winner, 38 years old or not, the man can pitch.

    It also keeps him away from the Red Sox, who are supposedly going hard after him as well. That's almost reason enough in itself to get him.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jays Claw View Post
    Honestly, why not just target Halladay instead of Dickey? I'm pretty sure he could be had for much less. Maybe a package involving JPA, Stilson, and a lower level prospect gets it done.
    I think you can argue that Dickey will give you 200 plus innings every year for the next 3 three years, where Doc probably not, and expect that Doc will decline moreso than Dickey. I believe Dickey's the better bet.

  9. #39
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    Pretty big assumption thinking Doc's available in the first place. Also, the Mets need a catcher, the Phils don't. Jays matchup a lot better for a trade with NY than Philly.
    2013

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by riderfan60 View Post
    I think you can argue that Dickey will give you 200 plus innings every year for the next 3 three years, where Doc probably not, and expect that Doc will decline moreso than Dickey. I believe Dickey's the better bet.
    Doc has a lot more years left in him than you think. Injuries slowed him down last season but let's not forget he's 2 years removed from winning the NL Cy Young, and a year removed from being the NL's SP for the All-Star game. I would much rather invest in Doc, who has been an anchor for years rather than Dickey, who sort of came out of nowhere last season.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2009mvp View Post
    Pretty big assumption thinking Doc's available in the first place. Also, the Mets need a catcher, the Phils don't. Jays matchup a lot better for a trade with NY than Philly.
    You're right, Doc probably isn't available - but why not? With rumors swirling about Lee on the move, why not Doc? I remember reading something a year back how the Phils would be interested in a d'Arnaud for Doc swap as they're looking to get younger at the catcher position. Now, I know there is a HUGE difference in the projections of JPA and d'Arnaud, but it's not like AA can't add in some pieces to sweeten the pot. Looks like they could use an OFer... maybe toss Sierra/Gose their way?
    Last edited by Jays Claw; 12-05-2012 at 07:22 PM.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2009mvp View Post
    Pretty big assumption thinking Doc's available in the first place. Also, the Mets need a catcher, the Phils don't. Jays matchup a lot better for a trade with NY than Philly.
    I doubt that package would be even close enough to get Halladay. There are probably two dozen teams looking for starting pitching, mediocre pitchers are getting insane amounts of money. The Phillies could trade Halladay and teams would be willing to give a ton for him.


    The Brilliant Plan of How to Get Andrew Wiggins in a Toronto Uniform
    Quote Originally Posted by deaner View Post
    All I'm saying is the league wants to see Toronto succeeded. An outside chance Silver could say to philly... You know... That's a great trade offer from Toronto for the first pick. It's up to you but we'd love to see wiggins in Toronto.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2009mvp View Post
    Pretty big assumption thinking Doc's available in the first place. Also, the Mets need a catcher, the Phils don't. Jays matchup a lot better for a trade with NY than Philly.

    That depends on how worried the Phillies are with Ruiz missing the first month of the season with the suspension. If they're worried, they need a CF AND a catcher. Seems like a good matchup to me.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jays Claw View Post
    Doc has a lot more years left in him than you think. Injuries slowed him down last season but let's not forget he's 2 years removed from winning the NL Cy Young, and a year removed from being the NL's SP for the All-Star game. I would much rather invest in Doc, who has been an anchor for years rather than Dickey, who sort of came out of nowhere last season.
    Dickey's been pretty solid for the past three years. Not saying that Doc wouldn't be a great get if he was available, but I think his price would be a lot higher than Dickey's, and you might get better results from Dickey.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmradioguy View Post
    That depends on how worried the Phillies are with Ruiz missing the first month of the season with the suspension. If they're worried, they need a CF AND a catcher. Seems like a good matchup to me.
    Yeah Bob Elliot said in that chat thing that we match up well with them

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