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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Good. I'm telling everyone here with a bad feeling about SV that if he's healthy in year 1, he'll become a fan favorite, probably past what Ross was last year.
    Don't even know what your saying... I'm too distracted by your sig

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by redsoxfuture View Post
    Anyone else think they should have offered the 1yr 13mil qualifying offer to Ross? Id rather have Ross accept that for 1 year instead of Victorino for 3 years. Or if Ross turns it down, they get a draft pick out of it once he signs somewhere else. Kinda seems like a win win.

    Basically which would you rather have?

    Ross accepts 1 yr 13mil QO
    or
    Ross rejects 1 yr 13mil QO, sign Victorino 3 yrs 39mil, obtain draft pick one Ross signs
    Ross would have accepted that.

    If he was linked to a draft pick his FA stock would diminish significantly, almost forcing him to accept it.

    Victorino is a better player than Ross, in my opinion, and at the same average salary, I would take Victorino, even though he does require 3 more years.

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    One year a guy is a 5 year player, the next hes 2.5 and considered trash when he still deserved $14M last year in a down season according to fangraphs. Victorino is a flat out better player than Cody Ross. It's pretty simple. If Ross/Nixon could become fan favorites, theres no reason Victorino cant. And the contract is completely fine. Look at his fangraphs values, hes been at least a $13M earner in the last 6 years. I don't get why this contract worries anybody. It'll work out well.
    That's if you put stock into FG values, which I don't like too much. Regardless, his value came from playing CF. Stick him in right where his defense isn't as valuable and his bat plays worse and...

    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Sing it!

    Just crabby Red Sox fans that have watched him less then 10 minutes their whole lives pining away for Hamilton.
    I didn't want Hamilton or Victorino. Both are stupid deals.

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pittz View Post
    That's if you put stock into FG values, which I don't like too much. Regardless, his value came from playing CF. Stick him in right where his defense isn't as valuable and his bat plays worse and...
    It goes both ways. His defense is going to play up in a corner OF spot and he'll be hitting at better hitters parks as well.

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pittz View Post
    That's if you put stock into FG values, which I don't like too much. Regardless, his value came from playing CF. Stick him in right where his defense isn't as valuable and his bat plays worse and...
    Of the 60 corner OF's in MLB, Fenway's RF is the largest and requires the best fielder range wise and arm wise. Victorino will give good value in RF, and decent value in CF if/when we deal Ellsbury, or he walks.

    I didn't want Hamilton or Victorino. Both are stupid deals.
    What was you alternative?


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  6. #231
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    I would like to actually commit to a rebuild and give Kalish a real opportunity for once. He's finally healthy, and if we want him to have a future here, he needs to be able to prove himself. This is his first time healthy since he played around 50 games at 22 years old and put up a .710 OPS, which isn't great, but it beats Victorino's OPS last season. Give the kid a chance, don't spend money just to spend money.

    Victorino was at least a relief that we didn't sign Hamilton, because it means they're committing to retooling. They may not be rebuilding like I would like, but at least they aren't actually trying to compete next year, and aren't completely sacrificing the future to appease the pink hats, even though that's basically what this move was. Spending money to be marginally better, but nowhere good enough, to save face.

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pittz View Post
    I would like to actually commit to a rebuild and give Kalish a real opportunity for once. He's finally healthy, and if we want him to have a future here, he needs to be able to prove himself. This is his first time healthy since he played around 50 games at 22 years old and put up a .710 OPS, which isn't great, but it beats Victorino's OPS last season. Give the kid a chance, don't spend money just to spend money.
    AFAIK Kalish is in the mix as platoon LF at this point. Seeing as he's the LHH side of it, and there are injury possibilities in CF and RF, if he's healthy and hitting decently I'd be surprised if he doesn't get above 425 PA's. I'd classify that as a shot.

    Victorino was at least a relief that we didn't sign Hamilton, because it means they're committing to retooling. They may not be rebuilding like I would like, but at least they aren't actually trying to compete next year, and aren't completely sacrificing the future to appease the pink hats, even though that's basically what this move was. Spending money to be marginally better, but nowhere good enough, to save face.
    Retooling in the short term to be ~.500 or above, rebuilding for the long term is the clear plan.

    There are no young super stud FA's this year. There are no super stud kids available in trade either unless you commit to rebuild now, which I wouldn't mind, but RSN would probably appreciate a decent try in '13 until the trade deadline. Guys like Lester, Buchholz, Gomes, Dempster, etc. could have good value this summer and next summer as well, and really help jump start the rebuild. I fully expect to see this if we are under water at those times of trade deadline/waivers.

    You also left out that Ellsbury is easier to deal if the offer is good enough. We don't have another credible CF in house. JBJ won't be ready until perhaps mid '14. The rest of the guys we have are too young, or can field and not hit, and Kalish is under enough strain in a corner OF slot vs RHP. Throwing him in CF as a starter w/o a net seems to be asking too much initially.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  8. #233
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    How wrong we were. Not counting his performance tonight vs the Dodgers, Fangraphs has him at 4.0 WAR and he's been worth $19.9M thus far this season. Safe to say that if he stays relatively healthy the next 2 seasons he'll easily earn exceed his contract. His defense in RF has been ridiculous as well.

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by AI4 View Post
    How wrong we were. Not counting his performance tonight vs the Dodgers, Fangraphs has him at 4.0 WAR and he's been worth $19.9M thus far this season. Safe to say that if he stays relatively healthy the next 2 seasons he'll easily earn exceed his contract. His defense in RF has been ridiculous as well.
    Don't include me...

    "I'm telling everyone here with a bad feeling about SV that if he's healthy in year 1, he'll become a fan favorite" - me 12/13/12.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  10. #235
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    I completely hated the deal. Glad I was wrong.
    Bring back MacDime

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Lavigne43- View Post
    Ughhh.

    This is ironic
    @GordonEdes
    Red Sox liked Haren, but it was simply a matter of money. Weren't going to $13m after a season in which his velocity dipped
    Looks like they picked well: 8-11, 4.66ERA (81 ERA+), 1.237whip, 46% quality starts, league-high 25HR allowed.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Don't include me...

    "I'm telling everyone here with a bad feeling about SV that if he's healthy in year 1, he'll become a fan favorite" - me 12/13/12.
    I always liked him but assumed that it was an overpay at the time. I didn't mind the strategy of making high-priced, short-term investments though I have been a little worried about the impact that it would have on QOs; escalating them more quickly than they'd otherwise rise will make it riskier to offer your own FAs and also tend to drive up the FA prices over time.

  12. #237
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    Victorino now at 4.3 fWAR, tied with Pedroia for team leader. FG$ has him valued at $21.5M so far this year.

  13. #238
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    This topic got me interested in seeing how our offseason investments have paid off so far:


    Player Contract fWAR FG$ (Value)
    Victorino $13M 4.3 $21.5M
    Napoli $5M (Incentives can push to $13M) 2.2 $11.1M
    Drew $9.5M 2.2 $10.8M
    Gomes $5M 0.6 $2.8M
    Ross $3.1M 0.5 $2.3M
    Dempster $13.2M 1.2 $6.0M
    Koji $4.2M 2.3 $11.6M

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368:26952661
    Quote Originally Posted by AI4 View Post
    How wrong we were. Not counting his performance tonight vs the Dodgers, Fangraphs has him at 4.0 WAR and he's been worth $19.9M thus far this season. Safe to say that if he stays relatively healthy the next 2 seasons he'll easily earn exceed his contract. His defense in RF has been ridiculous as well.
    Don't include me...

    "I'm telling everyone here with a bad feeling about SV that if he's healthy in year 1, he'll become a fan favorite" - me 12/13/12.
    Me too!


    lol, small kid got tripped by a tuba player

  15. #240
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    I feel like gomes has been a bit more valuable than statistics would show. Is that just me?

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