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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan View Post
    I dont mind SV and the 13mil is the same as Hunter got from Detroit and I think Victorino will be more productive. The only way I see this being a bad signing is if he blocks a prospect and I dont know enough about the Sox system to know either way about that.
    Good question. They have a spec Jackie Bradly Jr that is supposed to ready for CF in 2014. Good fielder, good OBP guy, patient, polished, but less then AS upside.

    They have a young player - Kalish that looked like he might be good but has suffered injuries - so unclear, key year this year in deciding.

    They have another spec Brentz (RF/LF) who could be ready in '14-'15 but something tells me he's going to be trade bait.

    With Ellsbury almost for sure gone no later then the end of 2013, and Gomes gone at the end of 2014, there will lots of room for Bradley in CF and SV in LF or RF.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 12-06-2012 at 07:49 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I wouldn't spend the money, stock pile a couple of high draft picks over the next few seasons, give what young guys you do have a chance, make some solid, but quiet trades, and have my eyes completely set on 2015 where I can add as much payroll that year as I want with whatever free agents will be on the market then to add to my team (assuming the current young guys do develop until then). This 26 million to Napoli and SV for 2015 could be the money they would want to give to Elvis Andrus for example that year. Obviously that's too far away to know and he obviously wouldn't be worth all that himself. But you don't know what kind of limitations could be impeded upon by these moves. But they being 3 year deals it's unlikely it will hurt them too much.

    I think they are just wasting money to be mediocre. It's fine, it's just not what I would do. Different philosophies.

    I liked the Napoli signing, I don't like the Victorino signing. Overall, it's sort of meh. It's fine, it's not great, it's probably not even good. It's just....whatever. It's the philosophy that Cherington and company are choosing to go forward with. That's fine.
    That's what I would do too, but BoSox fans that pay by far the highest ticket prices/parking/concessions in MLB don't take kindly to sitting through 70-92 seasons.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    He can throw innings for sure. He's also had a history of being touched up in the AL East.
    We'll see how it goes but it's sure nice to have a consistent guy in the rotation even if he's just a mid-rotation guy. The team was decimated last year, especially on the pitching side.



    He's pitched over 157 innings 3 tmes in 7 years a a full time starter. Pardon me if I don't see him as a reliable innings wise - although more talented then Buehrle by far.
    In the last 4 years Johnson has pitched-
    209 IP
    183 2/3
    60 1/3
    191 1/3

    So 3 of the last 4 years he hasn't been too bad at all like you're suggesting. Last year there were a total of 30 pitchers in baseball who threw 200 innings or more, they aren't easy to find and a good chunk of those 30 aren't exactly superstars.






    I really like Bonafacio - my favorite city on Corsica, and the players.

    Buck is overpaid but decent.
    Plenty of people don't like Bonafacio...which confuses me. He was injured in 2012 but in 2011 had a .753 OPS. I'll take that any day of the week from a utility guy.



    The Jays didn't give up much in terms of talent - but they did give up financial flexibility later on.

    AA wants to strike in the AL East while the Yanks and BRS are going to be refocusing, and TBR is going to keep bleeding top talent because it can't pay enough. The O's will go back to less than they were last year too. Jays could win the Al East two years in a row, that could be huge for the franchise which is why I was careful to say that its on field from about mid '15 on that I don't like the deal for them.
    But I'm not sure that this team won't be flexible later on. For all we know, lets say some of these guys don't play well, we have a GM who moved Vernon Wells' contract. I agree now is the time to go after the division crown but I wouldn't expect the Jays to fall off the radar in 2 or 3 years. Keep in mind our ownership is capable of outspending anyone in this division.

    Reyes is not great with the bat. He's had one great year, 3 other very good years, but overall, he's good at SS with the bat.
    He's averaged nearly an .800 OPS since 2008. I'll take that from my SS.
    His interleague slash is down a bit, which could portend problems. The hard surface in Toronto could aggravate his leg issues as well. I would never hand him his contract if I was a GM.
    Too many questions here and not enough answers. Slash lines during interleague play need to be taken with a grain of salt. Until a guy plays full time when switching leagues, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt and I think that's only fair. Until a guy becomes familiar with the pitchers, he's at a disadvantage. As far as the injuries, who knows? you never know how a guy will react. There's also been rumors that Skydome will get grass in the near future. We'll see. We sure as hell hope so here.

  4. #244
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    the maui sun surfer is only good on defense...hes worth around 7 mill

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by AI4LIFE View Post
    Oh a player who had a down year and still put up a 3.3 WAR is already a burden? Jays fans need to stop being so damn arrogant. Victorino is on the decline yet had the best year of his career in 2011. OK...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bos_Sports4Life View Post
    07- 3.1 WAR
    08- 4.2 WAR
    09- 3.5 WAR
    '10- 2.8 WAR
    '11- 5.2 WAR
    '12- 2.4 WAR

    besides last yr he was consistantly 3+ WAR, Yet...Hes a burden?

    Overpayment? sure
    A deal I would have made?No

    But his WAR suggests he's deff a 3 yr/30 Mill dollar calliber player
    But not a 3/39 calibre player.

    He's been on a decline since 2008, in terms of avg, ops, slugging, etc.

    And by the way, those pants, they belong to my dad.And they're not really pants,
    they're Lederhosen



  6. #246
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    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...ition=OF#value

    Tell me how this contract is a big deal.

  7. #247
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    I'm convinced.

    And by the way, those pants, they belong to my dad.And they're not really pants,
    they're Lederhosen



  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Your AAV and totals on Reyes are incorrect. As is your claim that Reyes produces more - since 2008 that's false.
    You're right that I missed the $4M buyout option for the club option for a 6th season, just as you missed the $3M the Marlins are paying him in 2013.

    I love your prediction then presented as a fact that he'll be injured when he's 32 years old as well. That's gold. Well played.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    What's your fascination with SV? Didn't seem that marked until the sore spot Reyes was brought up. Wat up w/ that?
    I don't think Victorino is even slightly fascinating, so I'm not quite sure how you came up with that idea. I was merely responding to your earlier post where you tried to defend the Victorino signing by boiling down the Jays trade with the Marlins to a single player in it whom you feel is overpaid as a comparison to try to justify the Victorino signing. It was a flawed and emotional response on your part.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    I love your prediction then presented as a fact that he'll be injured when he's 32 years old as well. That's gold. Well played.
    What? You got the right poster there buddy?

    I don't think Victorino is even slightly fascinating, so I'm not quite sure how you came up with that idea. I was merely responding to your earlier post where you tried to defend the Victorino signing by boiling down the Jays trade with the Marlins to a single player in it whom you feel is overpaid as a comparison to try to justify the Victorino signing. It was a flawed and emotional response on your part.
    I spent more time breaking down all the players in the deal later when I had the time. It's a risky move by the Jays that appears to me to be going negative for them on the field by mid 2015 or so. OTOH they could easily win the AL East both of the next two years - so maybe it's worth it to them. See #245 and #249 - seems pretty dispassionate to me.

    I'd like to help you out, which way did you come in?


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  10. #250
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    JR - signed through 2017, $106 million w/ $22 million team option in 2018.
    SV - signed through 2015, $39 million.

    JR - age 29
    SV - age 32

    JR - leadoff switch hitter
    SV - leadoff switch hitter

    JR - 0 gold glove awards SS
    SV - 3 gold glove awards CF
    WTA's Next Rising Superstar - #7 in the World


    French Canadian Eugenie Bouchard

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    OTOH they could easily win the AL East both of the next two years - so maybe it's worth it to them. See #245 and #249 - seems pretty dispassionate to me.
    They could win those years, and they could lose them. I'm not sure how that relates to the Red Sox signing Shane Victorino (who I do not believe is particularly damaging to the Sox long-term) or how you decided to compare signing him to trading for 5 years remaining on Jose Reyes' contract as part of a 12 player deal involving 3 all-stars coming to Toronto. Even if you're right that it'd end up being a bad contract in the future, it'd be more comparable to the Dodgers trading for Adrian Gonzalez than Boston signing Victorino.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    I'd like to help you out, which way did you come in?
    Oh, I came into this part of the discussion when you tried to defend the Shane Victorino signing (which doesn't really need much defense) by irrationally comparing it to the trade for (among others) Jose Reyes. I don't need any help with anything that relates to this discussion or any other on this forum, but if I ever do, I'll be sure to take you up on your kind offer when I've exhausted all other options. Thanks, buddy.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Kevin Millar.....he just said the Red Sox are the best team in the AL East right now.

    Better than the Yankees and Rays.


    He can be such an idiot.
    It's not about being an idiot.

    It's about being biased. Obviously he's going to pick his team.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    They could win those years, and they could lose them.
    By all means come out and say what you stand for.

    Thanks for the "sorry" about the $4M on Reyes contract...

    I notice you failed to answer post #257.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 12-06-2012 at 04:22 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    By all means come out and say what you stand for.

    Thanks for the "sorry" about the $4M on Reyes contract...

    I notice you failed to answer post #257.
    You must have ninja edited your last post because you just accused him of bringing up Reyes first when you were the first guy to bring him into this thread. Here:

    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Compared to what? Throwing away really big money on Reyes?


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twitchy View Post
    You must have ninja edited your last post because you just accused him of bringing up Reyes first when you were the first guy to bring him into this thread. Here:
    Ummm.. that was something I wrote early in the day, nothing intended for that post (#262) or poster, and I know damn well I brought it up first last night, with another poster.

    But thanks.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

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