Red Sox Sign Shane Victorino (3 Years, $39 million)

[Jeffy25]

I feel like the Red Sox are just adding money to a bad team, and scrambling to be a .500 team in the process.

[Fred]

$13m/yr for this guy? I liked him when he was in philly, but he isn't worth that...

[bagwell368]

I feel like the Red Sox are just adding money to a bad team, and scrambling to be a .500 team in the process.

Pink hats want to feel like they have a chance. The one thing that Sox have is money. The first real chance they have to compete is 2015 IMO.

By not dealing pieces from the farm, and overpaying on 2-3 year deals to avoid long term deals they do not imperil the 2015 and beyond plans, and will be able to field a 83 +/- 3 win team in '13, and try out a few specs in '13 and '14.

What should they do? spend no money and roll back ticket prices instead? It's a weak FA class and guys like Grienke and Hamilton would be at extreme risk to succeed in the cesspool of Boston fans and media. The farm is not robust enough to deliver more than one Stanton like player. You want them to rape it for one young guy and a couple of 34 year olds hitting their decline, would that be better? Seriously, go ahead and give your plans for Boston in 2013 and going forward.

[bagwell368]

Kevin Millar.....he just said the Red Sox are the best team in the AL East right now.

Better than the Yankees and Rays.


He can be such an idiot.

Well, that's what he was in Boston - and idiot - but a proud one!

I'd be happy with 83 wins and a 4th or 3rd place finish this year.

[bagwell368]

How would it be a big mistake? Buerhle is a low injury risk, consistent starter. Not elite but I can easily see him being a nice number 3 throughout his contract.

He can throw innings for sure. He's also had a history of being touched up in the AL East.

Johnson isn't even 30 yet and has proven himself IMO to be an ace and I'll be happy if he's extended and just about any cost.

He's pitched over 157 innings 3 tmes in 7 years a a full time starter. Pardon me if I don't see him as a reliable innings wise - although more talented then Buehrle by far.

Reyes is Reyes.

Yes, a guy that is not going to come near that contract.

Buck was a salary dump and Bonafacio is a bench player who actually has starters upside if he can go back to his 2011 numbers.

I really like Bonafacio - my favorite city on Corsica, and the players.

Buck is overpaid but decent.

AA dealt some good prospects, one having mid-rotation potential, the other having the potential to start in center down the road. Alvarez is a starter now but hasn't added a third pitch and until he does, he's a #4. AA took minimum risk here, besides money, and just added some all-stars. I think you're jumping the gun by saying by 2015 the window will close. The core of this team isn't old.

The Jays didn't give up much in terms of talent - but they did give up financial flexibility later on.

AA wants to strike in the AL East while the Yanks and BRS are going to be refocusing, and TBR is going to keep bleeding top talent because it can't pay enough. The O's will go back to less than they were last year too. Jays could win the Al East two years in a row, that could be huge for the franchise which is why I was careful to say that its on field from about mid '15 on that I don't like the deal for them.

I've seen you bring him up numerous times. He's still a very good SS, average with the glove and great with the bat. Not to mention speed to burn. That's where his value lies, in his offense. He may be overrated but I think you underrate him.

Reyes is not great with the bat. He's had one great year, 3 other very good years, but overall, he's good at SS with the bat.

His interleague slash is down a bit, which could portend problems. The hard surface in Toronto could aggravate his leg issues as well. I would never hand him his contract if I was a GM.

Games played last 4 years:

33
133
126
160

hard to pile up offensive value when you are not playing.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I dont mind SV and the 13mil is the same as Hunter got from Detroit and I think Victorino will be more productive. The only way I see this being a bad signing is if he blocks a prospect and I dont know enough about the Sox system to know either way about that.

[bagwell368]

10 years ago, this would be even funnier.

The Red Sox have endured more losing than arguably any other franchise in baseball (Cubs, White Sox, Indians, but mostly)

Blue Jays had a very nice run in the early 90's. Could be back this year, and they are likely going to be better in 2013 than the Red Sox.

I'm sure the Jays will be better this year - but 0 playoff appearances since 1993 for the Jays pretty much says during > 90% of the people on PSD being fans - the Jays have never been in the playoffs, and had 10 losing seasons. Sox have been in almost half of those years (9/20), with 3 losing seasons.

I've been a fan since the middle of 1966, the only other year as bad as bad as 2012 over the past 47 years. Since the Yaz MVP season of '67, 7 losing seasons in 46 years, and 2 titles. That pretty much stands up to any franchise - Yanks have of course more WS in these 46 years, but more sub .500 seasons too.

[Jeffy25]

Pink hats want to feel like they have a chance. The one thing that Sox have is money. The first real chance they have to compete is 2015 IMO.

By not dealing pieces from the farm, and overpaying on 2-3 year deals to avoid long term deals they do not imperil the 2015 and beyond plans, and will be able to field a 83 +/- 3 win team in '13, and try out a few specs in '13 and '14.

What should they do? spend no money and roll back ticket prices instead? It's a weak FA class and guys like Grienke and Hamilton would be at extreme risk to succeed in the cesspool of Boston fans and media. The farm is not robust enough to deliver more than one Stanton like player. You want them to rape it for one young guy and a couple of 34 year olds hitting their decline, would that be better? Seriously, go ahead and give your plans for Boston in 2013 and going forward.

I wouldn't spend the money, stock pile a couple of high draft picks over the next few seasons, give what young guys you do have a chance, make some solid, but quiet trades, and have my eyes completely set on 2015 where I can add as much payroll that year as I want with whatever free agents will be on the market then to add to my team (assuming the current young guys do develop until then). This 26 million to Napoli and SV for 2015 could be the money they would want to give to Elvis Andrus for example that year. Obviously that's too far away to know and he obviously wouldn't be worth all that himself. But you don't know what kind of limitations could be impeded upon by these moves. But they being 3 year deals it's unlikely it will hurt them too much.

I think they are just wasting money to be mediocre. It's fine, it's just not what I would do. Different philosophies.

I liked the Napoli signing, I don't like the Victorino signing. Overall, it's sort of meh. It's fine, it's not great, it's probably not even good. It's just....whatever. It's the philosophy that Cherington and company are choosing to go forward with. That's fine.

[bagwell368]

I dont mind SV and the 13mil is the same as Hunter got from Detroit and I think Victorino will be more productive. The only way I see this being a bad signing is if he blocks a prospect and I dont know enough about the Sox system to know either way about that.

Good question. They have a spec Jackie Bradly Jr that is supposed to ready for CF in 2014. Good fielder, good OBP guy, patient, polished, but less then AS upside.

They have a young player - Kalish that looked like he might be good but has suffered injuries - so unclear, key year this year in deciding.

They have another spec Brentz (RF/LF) who could be ready in '14-'15 but something tells me he's going to be trade bait.

With Ellsbury almost for sure gone no later then the end of 2013, and Gomes gone at the end of 2014, there will lots of room for Bradley in CF and SV in LF or RF.

[bagwell368]

I wouldn't spend the money, stock pile a couple of high draft picks over the next few seasons, give what young guys you do have a chance, make some solid, but quiet trades, and have my eyes completely set on 2015 where I can add as much payroll that year as I want with whatever free agents will be on the market then to add to my team (assuming the current young guys do develop until then). This 26 million to Napoli and SV for 2015 could be the money they would want to give to Elvis Andrus for example that year. Obviously that's too far away to know and he obviously wouldn't be worth all that himself. But you don't know what kind of limitations could be impeded upon by these moves. But they being 3 year deals it's unlikely it will hurt them too much.

I think they are just wasting money to be mediocre. It's fine, it's just not what I would do. Different philosophies.

I liked the Napoli signing, I don't like the Victorino signing. Overall, it's sort of meh. It's fine, it's not great, it's probably not even good. It's just....whatever. It's the philosophy that Cherington and company are choosing to go forward with. That's fine.

That's what I would do too, but BoSox fans that pay by far the highest ticket prices/parking/concessions in MLB don't take kindly to sitting through 70-92 seasons.

[Halladay]

He can throw innings for sure. He's also had a history of being touched up in the AL East.

We'll see how it goes but it's sure nice to have a consistent guy in the rotation even if he's just a mid-rotation guy. The team was decimated last year, especially on the pitching side.

He's pitched over 157 innings 3 tmes in 7 years a a full time starter. Pardon me if I don't see him as a reliable innings wise - although more talented then Buehrle by far.

In the last 4 years Johnson has pitched-
209 IP
183 2/3
60 1/3
191 1/3

So 3 of the last 4 years he hasn't been too bad at all like you're suggesting. Last year there were a total of 30 pitchers in baseball who threw 200 innings or more, they aren't easy to find and a good chunk of those 30 aren't exactly superstars.

I really like Bonafacio - my favorite city on Corsica, and the players.

Buck is overpaid but decent.

Plenty of people don't like Bonafacio...which confuses me. He was injured in 2012 but in 2011 had a .753 OPS. I'll take that any day of the week from a utility guy.

The Jays didn't give up much in terms of talent - but they did give up financial flexibility later on.

AA wants to strike in the AL East while the Yanks and BRS are going to be refocusing, and TBR is going to keep bleeding top talent because it can't pay enough. The O's will go back to less than they were last year too. Jays could win the Al East two years in a row, that could be huge for the franchise which is why I was careful to say that its on field from about mid '15 on that I don't like the deal for them.

But I'm not sure that this team won't be flexible later on. For all we know, lets say some of these guys don't play well, we have a GM who moved Vernon Wells' contract. I agree now is the time to go after the division crown but I wouldn't expect the Jays to fall off the radar in 2 or 3 years. Keep in mind our ownership is capable of outspending anyone in this division.

Reyes is not great with the bat. He's had one great year, 3 other very good years, but overall, he's good at SS with the bat.

He's averaged nearly an .800 OPS since 2008. I'll take that from my SS.

His interleague slash is down a bit, which could portend problems. The hard surface in Toronto could aggravate his leg issues as well. I would never hand him his contract if I was a GM.

Too many questions here and not enough answers. Slash lines during interleague play need to be taken with a grain of salt. Until a guy plays full time when switching leagues, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt and I think that's only fair. Until a guy becomes familiar with the pitchers, he's at a disadvantage. As far as the injuries, who knows? you never know how a guy will react. There's also been rumors that Skydome will get grass in the near future. We'll see. We sure as hell hope so here.

[rockbottom2010]

the maui sun surfer is only good on defense...hes worth around 7 mill

[Johann]

Oh a player who had a down year and still put up a 3.3 WAR is already a burden? Jays fans need to stop being so damn arrogant. Victorino is on the decline yet had the best year of his career in 2011. OK...

07- 3.1 WAR
08- 4.2 WAR
09- 3.5 WAR
'10- 2.8 WAR
'11- 5.2 WAR
'12- 2.4 WAR

besides last yr he was consistantly 3+ WAR, Yet...Hes a burden?

Overpayment? sure
A deal I would have made?No

But his WAR suggests he's deff a 3 yr/30 Mill dollar calliber player

But not a 3/39 calibre player.

He's been on a decline since 2008, in terms of avg, ops, slugging, etc.

[Nomar]

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...ition=OF#value

Tell me how this contract is a big deal.

[Johann]

I'm convinced.