Red Sox Sign Shane Victorino (3 Years, $39 million)

[Nomar]

Oh man, I love this rant so much, especially the ending. You do realize the Jays set club records in players used last season right? of course you didn't. I don't think you know a thing about the Jays. Our fan base appreciates your condescending tone, we really do, but a fan of a team who went how long without a championship is in no position to tell other fans how it is. The Sox stunk for a long, long time, don't forget that.

Agreed with most of this, but who cares what team someone likes?

And the Blue Jays have made the playoffs 5 times (1985, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993). They've been pretty bad for all but 5 years of their 35 year existence. They've won the WS 2/35 years and the Sox have 7/111, which is a bit better, though neither look impressive.

[Halladay]

Agreed with most of this, but who cares what team someone likes?

And the Blue Jays have made the playoffs 5 times (1985, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993). They've been pretty bad for all but 5 years of their 35 year existence. They've won the WS 2/35 years and the Sox have 7/111, which is a bit better, though neither look impressive.

I don't. My point was you can't sit all high and mighty and look down on another fanbase for it's teams lack of success in 20 years when your own team went through something similar, if not worse. The injuries and underachieving statement is laughable considering the fans it was addressed to.

[Jeffy25]

Red Sox fans having to listen to Jays fans is like a pornstar listening to a kid who just had there first orgasm.

10 years ago, this would be even funnier.

The Red Sox have endured more losing than arguably any other franchise in baseball (Cubs, White Sox, Indians, but mostly)

Blue Jays had a very nice run in the early 90's. Could be back this year, and they are likely going to be better in 2013 than the Red Sox.

[bagwell368]

Do you actually think that trade with the Marlins was a bad deal or was it just the only thing you could think of to try to fight back against what you perceived to be an attack against the Red Sox

I think it has the potential to be a good deal for the Jays in '13 and '14. But by mid '15 at the latest purely in on the field/financial terms it will be seen as a mistake - maybe a big one - going forward.

Sir, I'm about the longest term Sox fan on PSD, and amongst the most critical of them. I've been saying for months that they shouldn't make any long term deals or deal key pieces of the farm this off season, since they have no chance to win the WS in '13 or '14. If they are over paying in the one thing they have plenty of - money to avoid doing those things and field a .500 team for the fans, than I can't get too worked up over it. By a pure percentage I think they overpaid for Gomes more than SV.

[bagwell368]

What's your obsession with Jose Reyes?

Obsession? His fielding has gone from elite to average. His one big hitting year is also behind him. He seems to be a prima donna and he's been massively overrated by the press most of his career. Outside of that I could care less.

[bagwell368]

Not really.

He's being overpaid, but this was last off season, where Pujols got however much he got. Reyes has value and is relatively young. A great season in his final year with the Mets, and he was rewarded with the contract.

Shane stunk, and still got the contract. He's also on the decline, so the signing really makes little sense.

Reyes contract is though 2018 if I'm not mistaken for stupid money ($22M 2015/16/17/18 - hhahahha!! - $114M or w/ option through '17 $96M). SV is done in Boston in '15 for a fraction of the money. I don't see the connection.

rWAR since 2005:

JR --- SV

1.4 - N/A
5.6 - 1.9
5.0 - 3.1
4.7 - 4.2
0.8 - 3.5
2.2 - 2.8
4.7 - 5.2
2.8 - 1.1

JR is 2.5 years younger then SV, but has had more injury problems, and his peak season is now six years behind him. SV's is one. Since 2008 they are very close value wise, with SV holding the edge. Yeah please explain to me how SV's contract sucks and JR's is a paragon of wisdom?

[bagwell368]

They certainly over paid for him and Napoli. Holy cow.

Ever see Napoli's slash in Fenway? .306/.397/.710 w/ 7 HR's in 73 PA's
Did you notice no draft pick is lost?
Think LaRoche is better? Red Sox have an in-house option?
How a 1B that can catch too, and that is 2nd all time in games thrown for John Lackey?

[Jeffy25]

I like the Napoli signing. I don't much like the Victorino signing.

Too much money for what is really a platoon player. He isn't a horrible ball player. He just isn't worth 13 million going forward.

[Jeffy25]

Kevin Millar.....he just said the Red Sox are the best team in the AL East right now.

Better than the Yankees and Rays.


He can be such an idiot.

[bagwell368]

I'll agree it's not ideal, he's very well compensated. But he also performs pretty well at a premium position (2011, 2012). With the Marlins picking up $3M of his 2013 salary (according to baseball-reference), the remaining contract comes to $89,000,000 over 5 years ($17.5M AAV) for his age 30 through 34 seasons. All things considered, it doesn't seem particularly unreasonable to me. You disagree it would seem, and I respect your opinion.

How do you get $89M for 5 years?

10
16
22
22
22
4 - team payout if 6th year declined

That's $96M for 5 years ($18.4M AAV) or 6 years for $114M ($19M AAV)

This for a guy that had his peak year in 2006, only two very good years since '08, with a lower rWAR then SV since 2008 - and ongoing leg problems.

[Halladay]

I think it has the potential to be a good deal for the Jays in '13 and '14. But by mid '15 at the latest purely in on the field/financial terms it will be seen as a mistake - maybe a big one - going forward

How would it be a big mistake? Buerhle is a low injury risk, consistent starter. Not elite but I can easily see him being a nice number 3 throughout his contract. Johnson isn't even 30 yet and has proven himself IMO to be an ace and I'll be happy if he's extended and just about any cost. Reyes is Reyes. Buck was a salary dump and Bonafacio is a bench player who actually has starters upside if he can go back to his 2011 numbers. AA dealt some good prospects, one having mid-rotation potential, the other having the potential to start in center down the road. Alvarez is a starter now but hasn't added a third pitch and until he does, he's a #4. AA took minimum risk here, besides money, and just added some all-stars. I think you're jumping the gun by saying by 2015 the window will close. The core of this team isn't old.

Obsession? His fielding has gone from elite to average. His one big hitting year is also behind him. He seems to be a prima donna and he's been massively overrated by the press most of his career. Outside of that I could care less.

I've seen you bring him up numerous times. He's still a very good SS, average with the glove and great with the bat. Not to mention speed to burn. That's where his value lies, in his offense. He may be overrated but I think you underrate him.

[Halladay]

Kevin Millar.....he just said the Red Sox are the best team in the AL East right now.

Better than the Yankees and Rays.


He can be such an idiot.

I remember I almost threw up in my mouth when he signed in Toronto...I don't like anything about the guy. Regardless, Boston isn't as bad as they were a few weeks go. Napoli and Victorino plug some holes for now and may have gotten them ahead of Baltimore in my books. This is assuming Boston's rotation doesn't **** the bed. I can see both teams around the .500 mark next year but I wouldn't lay money down on it.

[bagwell368]

That doesn't answer my question. Reyes is overpaid, but he's also an elite SS who's contract was backloaded. You'd be crazy to prefer Victorino's deal over Reyes' all things considered. I just don't understand the obsession, I've seen him bring up Reyes a hundred times it seems(well before this signing).

You talking to me? Please cite these instances where he was the prime focus of a post of mine. He gets mentioned in lists - sure, but a 100 times? Please, is that NYese for 23?

[bagwell368]

I do agree that neither are terrible, but I guess my point is it seems ridiculous for a Boston fan to have defended the Victorino signing by referencing Reyes.

For only $4.5m more AAV, the position they each occupy, and both contracts ending in the same year (respective to age) it would seem like Reyes is a significantly better asset.

Your AAV and totals on Reyes are incorrect. As is your claim that Reyes produces more - since 2008 that's false.

What's your fascination with SV? Didn't seem that marked until the sore spot Reyes was brought up. Wat up w/ that?

[bagwell368]

Oh man, I love this rant so much, especially the ending. You do realize the Jays set club records in players used last season right? of course you didn't. I don't think you know a thing about the Jays. Our fan base appreciates your condescending tone, we really do, but a fan of a team who went how long without a championship is in no position to tell other fans how it is. The Sox stunk for a long, long time, don't forget that.

The Sox have not stunk overall since the end of the 1966 season - well before your franchise existed.

Since your last WS win, how many times have you gone to the playoffs vs the Sox? Right - 0 times with 10 years under .500

The Sox since 1993? 9 years in the playoffs with 2 (both sweeps) and 3 years under .500



SV deal is decent as is, the minute Ellsbury is gone, it's better. The minute they are out of it in '13 or '14 OR Bradley is ready for CF, he gets dealt.