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  1. #226
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    Kevin Millar.....he just said the Red Sox are the best team in the AL East right now.

    Better than the Yankees and Rays.


    He can be such an idiot.

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    I'll agree it's not ideal, he's very well compensated. But he also performs pretty well at a premium position (2011, 2012). With the Marlins picking up $3M of his 2013 salary (according to baseball-reference), the remaining contract comes to $89,000,000 over 5 years ($17.5M AAV) for his age 30 through 34 seasons. All things considered, it doesn't seem particularly unreasonable to me. You disagree it would seem, and I respect your opinion.
    How do you get $89M for 5 years?

    10
    16
    22
    22
    22
    4 - team payout if 6th year declined

    That's $96M for 5 years ($18.4M AAV) or 6 years for $114M ($19M AAV)

    This for a guy that had his peak year in 2006, only two very good years since '08, with a lower rWAR then SV since 2008 - and ongoing leg problems.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    I think it has the potential to be a good deal for the Jays in '13 and '14. But by mid '15 at the latest purely in on the field/financial terms it will be seen as a mistake - maybe a big one - going forward
    How would it be a big mistake? Buerhle is a low injury risk, consistent starter. Not elite but I can easily see him being a nice number 3 throughout his contract. Johnson isn't even 30 yet and has proven himself IMO to be an ace and I'll be happy if he's extended and just about any cost. Reyes is Reyes. Buck was a salary dump and Bonafacio is a bench player who actually has starters upside if he can go back to his 2011 numbers. AA dealt some good prospects, one having mid-rotation potential, the other having the potential to start in center down the road. Alvarez is a starter now but hasn't added a third pitch and until he does, he's a #4. AA took minimum risk here, besides money, and just added some all-stars. I think you're jumping the gun by saying by 2015 the window will close. The core of this team isn't old.
    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Obsession? His fielding has gone from elite to average. His one big hitting year is also behind him. He seems to be a prima donna and he's been massively overrated by the press most of his career. Outside of that I could care less.
    I've seen you bring him up numerous times. He's still a very good SS, average with the glove and great with the bat. Not to mention speed to burn. That's where his value lies, in his offense. He may be overrated but I think you underrate him.

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Kevin Millar.....he just said the Red Sox are the best team in the AL East right now.

    Better than the Yankees and Rays.


    He can be such an idiot.
    I remember I almost threw up in my mouth when he signed in Toronto...I don't like anything about the guy. Regardless, Boston isn't as bad as they were a few weeks go. Napoli and Victorino plug some holes for now and may have gotten them ahead of Baltimore in my books. This is assuming Boston's rotation doesn't **** the bed. I can see both teams around the .500 mark next year but I wouldn't lay money down on it.

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    That doesn't answer my question. Reyes is overpaid, but he's also an elite SS who's contract was backloaded. You'd be crazy to prefer Victorino's deal over Reyes' all things considered. I just don't understand the obsession, I've seen him bring up Reyes a hundred times it seems(well before this signing).
    You talking to me? Please cite these instances where he was the prime focus of a post of mine. He gets mentioned in lists - sure, but a 100 times? Please, is that NYese for 23?


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    I do agree that neither are terrible, but I guess my point is it seems ridiculous for a Boston fan to have defended the Victorino signing by referencing Reyes.

    For only $4.5m more AAV, the position they each occupy, and both contracts ending in the same year (respective to age) it would seem like Reyes is a significantly better asset.
    Your AAV and totals on Reyes are incorrect. As is your claim that Reyes produces more - since 2008 that's false.

    What's your fascination with SV? Didn't seem that marked until the sore spot Reyes was brought up. Wat up w/ that?


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    Oh man, I love this rant so much, especially the ending. You do realize the Jays set club records in players used last season right? of course you didn't. I don't think you know a thing about the Jays. Our fan base appreciates your condescending tone, we really do, but a fan of a team who went how long without a championship is in no position to tell other fans how it is. The Sox stunk for a long, long time, don't forget that.
    The Sox have not stunk overall since the end of the 1966 season - well before your franchise existed.

    Since your last WS win, how many times have you gone to the playoffs vs the Sox? Right - 0 times with 10 years under .500

    The Sox since 1993? 9 years in the playoffs with 2 (both sweeps) and 3 years under .500



    SV deal is decent as is, the minute Ellsbury is gone, it's better. The minute they are out of it in '13 or '14 OR Bradley is ready for CF, he gets dealt.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  8. #233
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    I feel like the Red Sox are just adding money to a bad team, and scrambling to be a .500 team in the process.

  9. #234
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    $13m/yr for this guy? I liked him when he was in philly, but he isn't worth that...

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I feel like the Red Sox are just adding money to a bad team, and scrambling to be a .500 team in the process.
    Pink hats want to feel like they have a chance. The one thing that Sox have is money. The first real chance they have to compete is 2015 IMO.

    By not dealing pieces from the farm, and overpaying on 2-3 year deals to avoid long term deals they do not imperil the 2015 and beyond plans, and will be able to field a 83 +/- 3 win team in '13, and try out a few specs in '13 and '14.

    What should they do? spend no money and roll back ticket prices instead? It's a weak FA class and guys like Grienke and Hamilton would be at extreme risk to succeed in the cesspool of Boston fans and media. The farm is not robust enough to deliver more than one Stanton like player. You want them to rape it for one young guy and a couple of 34 year olds hitting their decline, would that be better? Seriously, go ahead and give your plans for Boston in 2013 and going forward.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 12-06-2012 at 06:55 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Kevin Millar.....he just said the Red Sox are the best team in the AL East right now.

    Better than the Yankees and Rays.


    He can be such an idiot.
    Well, that's what he was in Boston - and idiot - but a proud one!

    I'd be happy with 83 wins and a 4th or 3rd place finish this year.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    How would it be a big mistake? Buerhle is a low injury risk, consistent starter. Not elite but I can easily see him being a nice number 3 throughout his contract.
    He can throw innings for sure. He's also had a history of being touched up in the AL East.

    Johnson isn't even 30 yet and has proven himself IMO to be an ace and I'll be happy if he's extended and just about any cost.
    He's pitched over 157 innings 3 tmes in 7 years a a full time starter. Pardon me if I don't see him as a reliable innings wise - although more talented then Buehrle by far.

    Reyes is Reyes.
    Yes, a guy that is not going to come near that contract.

    Buck was a salary dump and Bonafacio is a bench player who actually has starters upside if he can go back to his 2011 numbers.
    I really like Bonafacio - my favorite city on Corsica, and the players.

    Buck is overpaid but decent.

    AA dealt some good prospects, one having mid-rotation potential, the other having the potential to start in center down the road. Alvarez is a starter now but hasn't added a third pitch and until he does, he's a #4. AA took minimum risk here, besides money, and just added some all-stars. I think you're jumping the gun by saying by 2015 the window will close. The core of this team isn't old.
    The Jays didn't give up much in terms of talent - but they did give up financial flexibility later on.

    AA wants to strike in the AL East while the Yanks and BRS are going to be refocusing, and TBR is going to keep bleeding top talent because it can't pay enough. The O's will go back to less than they were last year too. Jays could win the Al East two years in a row, that could be huge for the franchise which is why I was careful to say that its on field from about mid '15 on that I don't like the deal for them.

    I've seen you bring him up numerous times. He's still a very good SS, average with the glove and great with the bat. Not to mention speed to burn. That's where his value lies, in his offense. He may be overrated but I think you underrate him.
    Reyes is not great with the bat. He's had one great year, 3 other very good years, but overall, he's good at SS with the bat.

    His interleague slash is down a bit, which could portend problems. The hard surface in Toronto could aggravate his leg issues as well. I would never hand him his contract if I was a GM.

    Games played last 4 years:

    33
    133
    126
    160

    hard to pile up offensive value when you are not playing.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  13. #238
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    I dont mind SV and the 13mil is the same as Hunter got from Detroit and I think Victorino will be more productive. The only way I see this being a bad signing is if he blocks a prospect and I dont know enough about the Sox system to know either way about that.

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    10 years ago, this would be even funnier.

    The Red Sox have endured more losing than arguably any other franchise in baseball (Cubs, White Sox, Indians, but mostly)

    Blue Jays had a very nice run in the early 90's. Could be back this year, and they are likely going to be better in 2013 than the Red Sox.
    I'm sure the Jays will be better this year - but 0 playoff appearances since 1993 for the Jays pretty much says during > 90% of the people on PSD being fans - the Jays have never been in the playoffs, and had 10 losing seasons. Sox have been in almost half of those years (9/20), with 3 losing seasons.

    I've been a fan since the middle of 1966, the only other year as bad as bad as 2012 over the past 47 years. Since the Yaz MVP season of '67, 7 losing seasons in 46 years, and 2 titles. That pretty much stands up to any franchise - Yanks have of course more WS in these 46 years, but more sub .500 seasons too.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Pink hats want to feel like they have a chance. The one thing that Sox have is money. The first real chance they have to compete is 2015 IMO.

    By not dealing pieces from the farm, and overpaying on 2-3 year deals to avoid long term deals they do not imperil the 2015 and beyond plans, and will be able to field a 83 +/- 3 win team in '13, and try out a few specs in '13 and '14.

    What should they do? spend no money and roll back ticket prices instead? It's a weak FA class and guys like Grienke and Hamilton would be at extreme risk to succeed in the cesspool of Boston fans and media. The farm is not robust enough to deliver more than one Stanton like player. You want them to rape it for one young guy and a couple of 34 year olds hitting their decline, would that be better? Seriously, go ahead and give your plans for Boston in 2013 and going forward.
    I wouldn't spend the money, stock pile a couple of high draft picks over the next few seasons, give what young guys you do have a chance, make some solid, but quiet trades, and have my eyes completely set on 2015 where I can add as much payroll that year as I want with whatever free agents will be on the market then to add to my team (assuming the current young guys do develop until then). This 26 million to Napoli and SV for 2015 could be the money they would want to give to Elvis Andrus for example that year. Obviously that's too far away to know and he obviously wouldn't be worth all that himself. But you don't know what kind of limitations could be impeded upon by these moves. But they being 3 year deals it's unlikely it will hurt them too much.

    I think they are just wasting money to be mediocre. It's fine, it's just not what I would do. Different philosophies.

    I liked the Napoli signing, I don't like the Victorino signing. Overall, it's sort of meh. It's fine, it's not great, it's probably not even good. It's just....whatever. It's the philosophy that Cherington and company are choosing to go forward with. That's fine.
    Last edited by Jeffy25; 12-06-2012 at 07:43 AM.

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