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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    So given the choice of...

    Shane Victorino, $13 million per year & 3 years (ages 32, 33, 34)

    ...or...

    Jose Reyes, $17.5 million per year & 5 years (ages 30, 31, 32, 33, 34)

    ...you choose Victorino? I don't really see the logic in it.

    I guess there's slightly more risk in the Reyes deal (2 more years and $4.5m more per year) but he plays a more premium position and performs at a higher level.
    2 more years, declining defense at SS, and a bat that wouldnt play too well at 2B. Couple that with the hard surface at Toronto and he may well get hurt again.

    Niether are horrible anyways, but Victorinos carries a lot less risk.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    2 more years, declining defense at SS, and a bat that wouldnt play too well at 2B. Couple that with the hard surface at Toronto and he may well get hurt again.

    Niether are horrible anyways, but Victorinos carries a lot less risk.
    I do agree that neither are terrible, but I guess my point is it seems ridiculous for a Boston fan to have defended the Victorino signing by referencing Reyes.

    For only $4.5m more AAV, the position they each occupy, and both contracts ending in the same year (respective to age) it would seem like Reyes is a significantly better asset.

    As for risk, you're right that Reyes contract is a bigger risk, although risk usually runs proportional to talent level and performance.

    Difference of opinion, I guess...
    Last edited by mtf; 12-06-2012 at 02:17 AM.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    I'd much rather have Victorino's deal. It wont hurt the Sox in the long run no matter what, even if he never played a game. Reyes could end up being a way bigger burden.
    So would you rather have Victorino or Reyes? Team needs aside, contracts aside. I just don't see how anyone could take Victorino over Reyes given their positions. Bostons fans claim it's only money, which they have plenty of. Well, so do the Jays. Neither have value contracts but as we all know, there's almost no such thing as those anymore in free agency.

  4. #214
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    God awful contract. The flying Hawaiian would get 2/12 max from me
    Unleash the Mamba!


  5. #215
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    Red Sox fans having to listen to Jays fans is like a pornstar listening to a kid who just had there first orgasm.

    You have 1 good offseason and think you know it all already. Well, wait until we play the games... Injuries WILL happen since there's no getting around them, and there's ALWAYS an underachieving player or 2 or 3 or 4 to go with a few surprise performers.

    Don't be surprised if the Jays let you down for the 21st straight season. I'm not saying this to bash you, I'm saying this through experience. And God knows my Sox have been the most injury prone underachieving team in baseball the past 2 years.
    WTA's Next Rising Superstar - #7 in the World


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  6. #216
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    To be fair the Blue Jays are no strangers to injury. Look at them this year alone.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo Sox Fan View Post
    Red Sox fans having to listen to Jays fans is like a pornstar listening to a kid who just had there first orgasm.

    You have 1 good offseason and think you know it all already. Well, wait until we play the games... Injuries WILL happen since there's no getting around them, and there's ALWAYS an underachieving player or 2 or 3 or 4 to go with a few surprise performers.

    Don't be surprised if the Jays let you down for the 21st straight season. I'm not saying this to bash you, I'm saying this through experience. And God knows my Sox have been the most injury prone underachieving team in baseball the past 2 years.
    Oh man, I love this rant so much, especially the ending. You do realize the Jays set club records in players used last season right? of course you didn't. I don't think you know a thing about the Jays. Our fan base appreciates your condescending tone, we really do, but a fan of a team who went how long without a championship is in no position to tell other fans how it is. The Sox stunk for a long, long time, don't forget that.

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    Oh man, I love this rant so much, especially the ending. You do realize the Jays set club records in players used last season right? of course you didn't. I don't think you know a thing about the Jays. Our fan base appreciates your condescending tone, we really do, but a fan of a team who went how long without a championship is in no position to tell other fans how it is. The Sox stunk for a long, long time, don't forget that.
    Agreed with most of this, but who cares what team someone likes?

    And the Blue Jays have made the playoffs 5 times (1985, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993). They've been pretty bad for all but 5 years of their 35 year existence. They've won the WS 2/35 years and the Sox have 7/111, which is a bit better, though neither look impressive.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    Agreed with most of this, but who cares what team someone likes?

    And the Blue Jays have made the playoffs 5 times (1985, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993). They've been pretty bad for all but 5 years of their 35 year existence. They've won the WS 2/35 years and the Sox have 7/111, which is a bit better, though neither look impressive.
    I don't. My point was you can't sit all high and mighty and look down on another fanbase for it's teams lack of success in 20 years when your own team went through something similar, if not worse. The injuries and underachieving statement is laughable considering the fans it was addressed to.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo Sox Fan View Post
    Red Sox fans having to listen to Jays fans is like a pornstar listening to a kid who just had there first orgasm.
    10 years ago, this would be even funnier.

    The Red Sox have endured more losing than arguably any other franchise in baseball (Cubs, White Sox, Indians, but mostly)

    Blue Jays had a very nice run in the early 90's. Could be back this year, and they are likely going to be better in 2013 than the Red Sox.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    Do you actually think that trade with the Marlins was a bad deal or was it just the only thing you could think of to try to fight back against what you perceived to be an attack against the Red Sox
    I think it has the potential to be a good deal for the Jays in '13 and '14. But by mid '15 at the latest purely in on the field/financial terms it will be seen as a mistake - maybe a big one - going forward.

    Sir, I'm about the longest term Sox fan on PSD, and amongst the most critical of them. I've been saying for months that they shouldn't make any long term deals or deal key pieces of the farm this off season, since they have no chance to win the WS in '13 or '14. If they are over paying in the one thing they have plenty of - money to avoid doing those things and field a .500 team for the fans, than I can't get too worked up over it. By a pure percentage I think they overpaid for Gomes more than SV.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    What's your obsession with Jose Reyes?
    Obsession? His fielding has gone from elite to average. His one big hitting year is also behind him. He seems to be a prima donna and he's been massively overrated by the press most of his career. Outside of that I could care less.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    Not really.

    He's being overpaid, but this was last off season, where Pujols got however much he got. Reyes has value and is relatively young. A great season in his final year with the Mets, and he was rewarded with the contract.

    Shane stunk, and still got the contract. He's also on the decline, so the signing really makes little sense.
    Reyes contract is though 2018 if I'm not mistaken for stupid money ($22M 2015/16/17/18 - hhahahha!! - $114M or w/ option through '17 $96M). SV is done in Boston in '15 for a fraction of the money. I don't see the connection.

    rWAR since 2005:

    JR --- SV

    1.4 - N/A
    5.6 - 1.9
    5.0 - 3.1
    4.7 - 4.2
    0.8 - 3.5
    2.2 - 2.8
    4.7 - 5.2
    2.8 - 1.1

    JR is 2.5 years younger then SV, but has had more injury problems, and his peak season is now six years behind him. SV's is one. Since 2008 they are very close value wise, with SV holding the edge. Yeah please explain to me how SV's contract sucks and JR's is a paragon of wisdom?
    Last edited by bagwell368; 12-06-2012 at 04:58 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by SACNYY View Post
    They certainly over paid for him and Napoli. Holy cow.
    Ever see Napoli's slash in Fenway? .306/.397/.710 w/ 7 HR's in 73 PA's
    Did you notice no draft pick is lost?
    Think LaRoche is better? Red Sox have an in-house option?
    How a 1B that can catch too, and that is 2nd all time in games thrown for John Lackey?


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  15. #225
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    I like the Napoli signing. I don't much like the Victorino signing.

    Too much money for what is really a platoon player. He isn't a horrible ball player. He just isn't worth 13 million going forward.

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