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  1. #181
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    He should be a platoon outfielder that gets 4th outfielder duty and plenty of defensive innings....and he was paid like he is an everyday centerfielder


    .244/.311/.390 - .309 wOBA, 91 wRC+ in 1388 PA

    This 113th out of 133 qualifying hitters

    This is not very good.


    He mashes lefties though, .407 wOBA, 157 wRC+ in 512 PA vs lefties.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    He should be a platoon outfielder that gets 4th outfielder duty and plenty of defensive innings....and he was paid like he is an everyday centerfielder


    .244/.311/.390 - .309 wOBA, 91 wRC+ in 1388 PA

    This 113th out of 133 qualifying hitters

    This is not very good.


    He mashes lefties though, .407 wOBA, 157 wRC+ in 512 PA vs lefties.
    how much does his value increase if he starts in CF instead of RF?

  3. #183
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    he went from a 5 WAR player in '11 to a 2.5 WAR player in 2012. It could've been just a down year and not an 100% decline. We'll see how he does. He won't kill RHP no matter what though and his defense will be important. He's not a big part of the offensive attack $13M or not.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by xnick5757 View Post
    how much does his value increase if he starts in CF instead of RF?
    It doesn't, it remains the same.

    He is a +1 to 3 Centfielder
    and a +10 to 13 rightfielder

    His positional adjustment would cost him about 10 runs, but he makes it up by being a much better than league average defensive right fielder, while being a league average defensive centerfielder.

    Same goes for left field.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    It doesn't, it remains the same.

    He is a +1 to 3 Centfielder
    and a +10 to 13 rightfielder

    His positional adjustment would cost him about 10 runs, but he makes it up by being a much better than league average defensive right fielder, while being a league average defensive centerfielder.

    Same goes for left field.
    mmm ok, thanks

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by xnick5757 View Post
    mmm ok, thanks
    Yeah, WAR-wise.

    Where you play in the outfield doesn't matter. You lose the runs you make up for offensively by changing positions and being better in the corners about 10 runs worth over center.

    Positional adjustments

    LF - -7.5
    CF - +2.5
    RF - -7.5

    But RFers tend to be +10 better than if they play center. So it washes out. Ichiro is a good example of someone that has played right and center enough. He was average defensively in center, and elite defensive in right. His bat looks more valuable when he plays center, but his defense looks better when he plays right (because of who he is being compared to).

    So basically, it doesn't matter where you play defensively in the outfield, your value is going to be based on what you do. He should be a +10 defensive corner outfielder.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Those seem like pretty dumb "reasons".
    If you followed the Boston media or fan base you wouldn't think so.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Yeah, WAR-wise.

    Where you play in the outfield doesn't matter. You lose the runs you make up for offensively by changing positions and being better in the corners about 10 runs worth over center.

    Positional adjustments

    LF - -7.5
    CF - +2.5
    RF - -7.5

    But RFers tend to be +10 better than if they play center. So it washes out. Ichiro is a good example of someone that has played right and center enough. He was average defensively in center, and elite defensive in right. His bat looks more valuable when he plays center, but his defense looks better when he plays right (because of who he is being compared to).

    So basically, it doesn't matter where you play defensively in the outfield, your value is going to be based on what you do. He should be a +10 defensive corner outfielder.
    According to FG WAR $, the past six years, he's averaged 27% over $13M per year.

    He will serve several purposes:

    #1. Be the CF after Ellsbury is dealt or leaves.
    #2. Be the CF until Bradley Jr. is ready to take over

    Very good glove, excellent base runner, high % SB's.

    He's not a bargain, but those that say he's a rip by todays FA standards are being unreasonable, in particular at 3 years when the BRS will be ready to field more home grown players, and then spend on FA selectively.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    What a guy offers on the field is what should be the most important. I'd still find those reasons to be pretty dumb.
    I agree w/ you more than I don't. I'm just trying to answer your question.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    FG WAR $ really shouldn't be taken literally. If so, you'd see all Giants fans jumping up and down in joy over Pagan's contract (according to FG WAR $, Pagan was worth $21.6MM in 2012 and $60.7MM total over the last 4 years).
    I think it's too high myself, but not hugely so.

    The deal is made for the Sox when Ells is gone - off season, deadline, or walks away at the end of the year. He is thought to dislike Boston (w/ good reason), I seriously doubt the Sox will meet the Boras price tag for him. Move him.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  11. #191
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    This is not a good deal.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntwanN21 View Post
    This is not a good deal.
    Compared to what? Throwing away really big money on Reyes?


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  13. #193
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    They certainly over paid for him and Napoli. Holy cow.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by SACNYY View Post
    They certainly over paid for him and Napoli. Holy cow.
    When 37 year old Scutaro is getting 3 years, or when Keppinger is getting 3 years. In the same offseason that Brandon League got HUGE dough. I don't know how much they're all overpaid. In terms of saber stats and all that cute stuff they may have overpaid. But relative to this ridiculous market this offseason, it's not awful.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Compared to what? Throwing away really big money on Reyes?
    Do you actually think that trade with the Marlins was a bad deal or was it just the only thing you could think of to try to fight back against what you perceived to be an attack against the Red Sox
    Last edited by mtf; 12-05-2012 at 11:45 PM.

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