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  1. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Dickey has all the leverage coming off a Cy Young season, but 3yrs/31 million like has been reported is not unreasonable.

    That's only (i know its hard to say "only" but in the context of baseball it's different) a 5 million dollar a year raise. He deserves that the way he has pitched the last 3 years.
    There is the age factor.

    How many guys not named Jeter sign new $15 mil/year deals at age 38. I can't think of any.

  2. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Incredible how so many people don't seem to understand Dickey has been one of baseball's best pitchers not since last year but since May 2010, ever since he mastered his knuckler.

    It was one thing when i heard these comments back in 2010. They started becoming annoying in 2011. Now, it's downright ludicrous.

    Just because the man throws a knuckler doesnt mean he deserves to be baseball's answer to the late Rodney Dangerfield.
    With all due deference to the Bishop, it's incredible how so many people don't seem to understand that the job of the GM is to do what is best for the team. Alderson knows full well that "Dickey has been one of baseball's best pitchers not since last year but since May 2010, ever since he mastered his knuckler." But he also knows full well that he may be more valuable to the Mets for what he brings back in trade than for what he will do on the mound.

    So, he's going to explore the market fully before he commits to an extension. The winter meetings, which were the best place for testing the market and getting an idea of what Dickey will bring, just ended a few days ago. Now, in the next week or two, bargaining will heat up and if a trade is to be made, it will. Just because the man isn't getting his extension as quickly resolved as he'd like doesnt mean that he "don't get no respect."
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomota48 View Post
    There is the age factor.

    How many guys not named Jeter sign new $15 mil/year deals at age 38. I can't think of any.
    Jeter is a SS who signed that deal at 35 years old with the intentions on him possibly moving to the DH position if he couldn't continue playing SS.

    It was also a deal similar to Wright in being the face of the franchise. Jeter was only worth that much to the Yankees.

    Dickey on the other hand, could get that type of deal in FA or trade (gathering he signs an extension if traded) with almost any other team.

    This isn't a guy with specifically (only) intrinsic value to the Mets. He's a valuable commodity that should be paid as such.

    Knuckleballers are not like other baseball players either, good ones age much more gracefully and can be effective into their 40s.

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Jeter is a SS who signed that deal at 35 years old with the intentions on him possibly moving to the DH position if he couldn't continue playing SS.

    It was also a deal similar to Wright in being the face of the franchise. Jeter was only worth that much to the Yankees.

    Dickey on the other hand, could get that type of deal in FA or trade (gathering he signs an extension if traded) with almost any other team.

    This isn't a guy with specifically (only) intrinsic value to the Mets. He's a valuable commodity that should be paid as such.

    Knuckleballers are not like other baseball players either, good ones age much more gracefully and can be effective into their 40s.
    So, in answer to my question, you don't know of anyone either who has signed a new contract at 38 and got $15 mil a year.

  5. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomota48 View Post
    So, in answer to my question, you don't know of anyone either who has signed a new contract at 38 and got $15 mil a year.
    That's not really relevant is it?

    The guy just came off his best season at 37 years old and has been as consistent as any other pitcher in baseball the last 3 years. He's also a knuckleballer who tend to have longer lifespans than the average pitcher/player.

    What in your opinion is fair value for Dickey?
    Last edited by metswon69; 12-11-2012 at 09:09 PM.

  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Incredible how so many people don't seem to understand Dickey has been one of baseball's best pitchers not since last year but since May 2010, ever since he mastered his knuckler.

    It was one thing when i heard these comments back in 2010. They started becoming annoying in 2011. Now, it's downright ludicrous.

    Just because the man throws a knuckler doesnt mean he deserves to be baseball's answer to the late Rodney Dangerfield.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLGxWPtgodo

  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    That's not really relevant is it?

    The guy came off his best season at 37 years and has been as consistent as any other pitcher in baseball the last 3 years. He's also a knuckleballer who tend to have longer lifespans than the average pitcher/player.

    What in your opinion is fair value for Dickey?
    Well, yeah, his age is relevant and I can see the Wilnotpons point of view. The long lifespan of knuckleballers is true to a point. He still has 38 year old legs.

    $10 mil a year seems fair given his age.

    Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that no one seems overly anxious to trade for Dickey???? His age is making teams think twice. If Dickey was 33 instead of 38 we would have made a deal by now. Maybe even signed him.

  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunbummin View Post
    With all due deference to the Bishop, it's incredible how so many people don't seem to understand that the job of the GM is to do what is best for the team. Alderson knows full well that "Dickey has been one of baseball's best pitchers not since last year but since May 2010, ever since he mastered his knuckler." But he also knows full well that he may be more valuable to the Mets for what he brings back in trade than for what he will do on the mound.

    So, he's going to explore the market fully before he commits to an extension. The winter meetings, which were the best place for testing the market and getting an idea of what Dickey will bring, just ended a few days ago. Now, in the next week or two, bargaining will heat up and if a trade is to be made, it will. Just because the man isn't getting his extension as quickly resolved as he'd like doesnt mean that he "don't get no respect."
    It's fair to point out that right now, Dickey and Alderson do not share common interests. But if the intention is to trade him, don't make him low ball offers. In fact, don't make any offers right now if that's the case.

    There's a lot of time between now and the end of Spring Training. You want to deal him, deal him. You want to sign him, sign him.

    Jerking him around is not an option. If they offered him 2/20, that's exactly what they're doing.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  9. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Dickey has all the leverage coming off a Cy Young season, but 3yrs/31 million like has been reported is not unreasonable.

    That's only (i know its hard to say "only" but in the context of baseball it's different) a 5 million dollar a year raise. He deserves that the way he has pitched the last 3 years.
    I beg to differ. Dickey has absolutely no leverage at all. He is already signed for 2013 @ $5 million. They can either choose to trade him or extend him. (I'm taking the "let him play out his option year" choice #3 off the table, since I think they know that 2 1/2 years of Dickey for say $26 million will most likely be worth much more in prospects than 2 months of Dickey at $2 million next July.) I have zero doubt that, if Alderson can't get a trade to his satisfaction, Dickey will get a contract to his. Maybe not quite as much as he is talking about now, but close.
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomota48 View Post
    Well, yeah, his age is relevant and I can see the Wilnotpons point of view. The long lifespan of knuckleballers is true to a point. He still has 38 year old legs.

    $10 mil a year seems fair given his age.

    Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that no one seems overly anxious to trade for Dickey???? His age is making teams think twice. If Dickey was 33 instead of 38 we would have made a deal by now. Maybe even signed him.
    Well it could also be potentially Sandy Alderson has incredible demands.

    If any of that report was true about the conversation about Bradley and Bogaerts from the Red Sox (the Red Sox #1 and #2 prospects) then i can see why teams aren't jumping to make that move.

    Either way, 10 million dollars a year won't get the job done unless the Mets go 3 years.

    This is Dickey's one chance to really cash in and i am sure he is going to take it.

  11. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunbummin View Post
    I beg to differ. Dickey has absolutely no leverage at all. He is already signed for 2013 @ $5 million. They can either choose to trade him or extend him. (I'm taking the "let him play out his option year" choice #3 off the table, since I think they know that 2 1/2 years of Dickey for say $26 million will most likely be worth much more in prospects than 2 months of Dickey at $2 million next July.) I have zero doubt that, if Alderson can't get a trade to his satisfaction, Dickey will get a contract to his. Maybe not quite as much as he is talking about now, but close.
    Well how can he not have leverage coming off a Cy Young season?

    Yes he is signed into this season but he wouldn't be getting as significant as of a raise coming off a season like 2011 or 2010. The season he had in 2012 (along with the Cy Young award itself) probably gave him another 10 million dollars on his next contract.

    And if they can't find what they want in trade, it's going to be difficult to justify letting him walk. It would be a public relations disaster after how well he has pitched the last 3 years and how well he could pitch next year.

  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Well it could also be potentially Sandy Alderson has incredible demands.

    If any of that report was true about the conversation about Bradley and Bogaerts from the Red Sox (the Red Sox #1 and #2 prospects) then i can see why teams aren't jumping to make that move.

    Either way, 10 million dollars a year won't get the job done unless the Mets go 3 years.

    This is Dickey's one chance to really cash in and i am sure he is going to take it.
    Hypothetical question…

    Look at the recent CY winners other than Dickey…Price, Kershaw, Verlander

    Would the Red Sox have traded their two prospects even up for them????

    Quite possibly. If so, and they wouldn't do it for Dickey (in spite of his last 3 years) then it is clearly a matter of his age.

    I guess we'll never really know, but I think Dickey's age works against the Mets.

  13. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    It's fair to point out that right now, Dickey and Alderson do not share common interests. But if the intention is to trade him, don't make him low ball offers. In fact, don't make any offers right now if that's the case.

    There's a lot of time between now and the end of Spring Training. You want to deal him, deal him. You want to sign him, sign him.

    Jerking him around is not an option. If they offered him 2/20, that's exactly what they're doing.
    And you make a fair pont that, if the intention is to weigh trade options before deciding whether to extend him, they should merely tell him that and wait until the trade discussions are ended to begin negotiations on an extension.

    The fact is, however, that we really don't know exactly what has transpired between the two sides. We only have speculation from "sources". How do we know they offered him 2/20? And I've seen reports that he is looking for 2/25, 2/26, 2/30 and even 3/45. Like the song says, "when you get behind closed doors . ."
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomota48 View Post
    Hypothetical question…

    Look at the recent CY winners other than Dickey…Price, Kershaw, Verlander

    Would the Red Sox have traded their two prospects even up for them????

    Quite possibly. If so, and they wouldn't do it for Dickey (in spite of his last 3 years) then it is clearly a matter of his age.

    I guess we'll never really know, but I think Dickey's age works against the Mets.
    You also have to factor in the problem with whoever acquires him has to sign him to an extension.

    That hurts Dickey's value in some respects and i still think there is a stigma even among other team's executives that Dickey is overrated or his success wouldn't translate (especially in the AL)

    Saying that, yeah age certainly plays a part in this and yes the Red Sox would probably deal for those pitchers in return (excluding Dickey) for their 2 best prospects.

    But the Mets are not asking for that particular type deal for Dickey, Olt and lower level prospects don't add up to Bogaerts and Bradley.
    Last edited by metswon69; 12-11-2012 at 09:34 PM.

  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    You also have to factor in the problem with whoever acquires him has to sign him to an extension.

    That hurts Dickey's value in some respects and i still think there is a stigma even among other team's executives that Dickey is overrated or his success wouldn't translate.

    Saying that, yeah age certainly plays a part in this and yes the Red Sox would probably deal for those pitchers in return for their 2 best prospects.

    But the Mets are not asking for that particular type deal for Dickey, Olt and lower level prospects don't add up to Bogaerts and Bradley.
    And they cannot seem to even get that. So thew problem is his age in my opinion.

    I don't think any GM wants to be the guy that gives a 38 year old a lot of $$$$ and the have it blow up in their face.

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